Page 114 of 122 FirstFirst ... 1464104112113114115116 ... LastLast
Results 1,131 to 1,140 of 1220

Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #1131
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    My arguments are not partisan but rather those of a realist. As you know I have been incredibly skeptical on where the money is going to come from. The 'upper middle class and wealthy folks' do not make enough to pay for all the changes this administration desires, ACA included. Also, the adjusted CBO numbers released earlier this year were pretty significant revisions…up. Given the GDP growth and UE projections have been woefully inaccurate my skepticism becomes more founded as time passes. Hoping it will work out is merely dreaming…IMHO

    ps. Since the CBO will score PPACA again since the SCOTUS has ruled wanna wager which way the 'costs' move?
    The upper middle class and wealthy have most of the money in this country. The CBO report did not in fact adjust the cost upward, but rather downward, relative to previous estimates -- Fox News reporting notwithstanding. The bottom line projection increased, of course, because the new report was looking at a different 10-year span -- this one covering more of the time period when the bulk of the law would be in effect. Pardon my Meida Matters, but they are correct here: Right-Wing Media Falsely Claim Cost Of Health Care Law Has Doubled | Research | Media Matters for America
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  2. #1132
    Sage
    mike2810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    arizona
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,012

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Of course not. However, its patently absurd to suggest that Romney or anyone else has better experience for the position of POTUS than the sitting POTUS. Anyone other than the sitting POTUS is going to have to learn the job. Yes, four years ago, Obama could only boast some experience in the US Senate. His inexperience was a valid issue. Now, however, he can boast four years experience as chief executive of the US... no one else (at least that is running and qualified to run) can make the same claim. Now, the issue of experience (or lack thereof) is an issue for Romney.

    The issue for the American people is going to be who is the better leader and executive years 2, 3 and 4 of the job. Can Romney learn the position fast enough in 1 year to be more effective than Obama with 5 years experience?
    Yes, Romney can. Obama did. This line of looking at experience reminds me of past elections dealing with military experience for President. Doesn't account for much anymore now does it?

    It is amazing that all Presidents have had a first term. Some were given a second term. Your right we need to look at who will be the best leader.

    I voted for Obama the first time (and I am a registered Republican - who votes who I think is the best canidate. been registered democrat and independent). I doubt I will vote for Obama again.
    -Obama stated in 2009 if my stimulas bill is passed, unemployment will be less than 6% by mid 2012. Nope
    -He would close Gitmo. (bad idea), but nope


    -It is too early to rate the Health Care Bill. My comment is my health care insurance has really become a tax. I have to keep it or pay a penality. What once was an elective, is now manditory by the feds. (i.e tax).
    this is much the same way I feel about car insurance. it is a State tax is disquise.(except the IRS or State tax won't come after you for not having it.

  3. #1133
    Professor
    Billy the Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 02:29 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,449

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Labels aside, explain who is being taxed. A word isn't equal to an action. Right now all that is law is that if you don't have insurance, you pay a penlty. No one else pays any tax. And for everyone to pay a tax, and new, separate tax would have to be established.

    Now as for your list, you things that are there right now, that are paid for right now, that we all pay for right now, what exactly do you think is different?

    I'd lay a bet right now, that this Obamacare "penalty" will become a TAX on the backs of the middle clase. It can't possibly be financed by the 40 million who will be using this program, nor the famous 1% gang.

    If you beleive that our current HC system can take care of an additional 40 million people without needing more resources, i.e., doctors, nurses, etc. then you're dreaming.
    Last edited by Billy the Kid; 07-07-12 at 08:35 AM.

  4. #1134
    Professor
    Billy the Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 02:29 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,449

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    WOW...'upper middle class and wealthy folks' are union members and the only ones who use 'medical devices'...and of course they will be the ones who will pay the mandate penalty.

    Try again...

    Of course it's Grandma or Grandpa who are going to need medical devices. Grandma can go into a wheelchair when she breaks her hip and Grandpa can push her around until he goes down. Why? Because Obamacare has already cut $500 Million out of Medicare to buy votes from those younger voters who need to stay on Mom and Dad's HC bill.
    Last edited by Billy the Kid; 07-07-12 at 08:38 AM.

  5. #1135
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,634

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    And taxes were raised.......

    really? the massive clinton tax hikes took place before the GOP took office and that was one of two reasons why the GOP took over-and Clinton admitted that

  6. #1136
    Sage
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,734

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I just love it when libertarian/conservatives try to argue against FACTS. And then they resort to lies and childish name-calling in the process.

    If you were trying to disprove my point, you failed miserably. Try again. Disprove that all Americans will be forced to pay the mandate/tax. Oh, and while you're contemplating your response, contemplate that some people would be getting tax CUTS from the ACA, if the Repubs don't kill it.
    You're an absolute ****ing genius. I think you missed this in your dem fed talking points but prosthetics are taxed more, heavy medical equipment is taxed more, and disposable medical equipment from syringes to tongue depressers are taxed more in bulk----all by this bill. What in the name of hell makes you think thats going to make costs go down?

    Ignore the mandate for a moment, there are 26 other taxes hidden in this bill that dems are decidedly not talking about that are going to make every medical procedure and visit increase in price. Doctors are not going to just absorb those costs, they are going to pass them along to the consumer---US.

    As for the mandate, a family of 4 with a good medical plan can conceiveably spend over 20k in premiums, thats 1700 a month, roughly, if youre doing the math. Once you pass that mark you are looking at immediately paying 40% more for your healthcare plan via tax. At the other end we have people that are paying 40 to 50 a month for catastrophic coverage because its all they can afford. Their plans go bye bye. HSAs? Gone. There are companies that are spending around 1k a year on health plans for employees. If this stays as law as concieved it will probably quadruple the costs to maintain the plan the government wants as the minimum accepted. Given that choice and the red tape that goes with it, I can see millions more uninsured as companies decide to pay fines rather than deal with it and individual plans skyrocketing as more people have to get them. I think this is actually going to do more harm than good for the very people its purported to help.

    Unintended consequences are a bitch.

  7. #1137
    Sage
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,734

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The upper middle class and wealthy have most of the money in this country. The CBO report did not in fact adjust the cost upward, but rather downward, relative to previous estimates -- Fox News reporting notwithstanding. The bottom line projection increased, of course, because the new report was looking at a different 10-year span -- this one covering more of the time period when the bulk of the law would be in effect. Pardon my Meida Matters, but they are correct here: Right-Wing Media Falsely Claim Cost Of Health Care Law Has Doubled | Research | Media Matters for America
    Dude its media matters. They cherry pick data relentlessly, quote out of context etc etc.

    If you believe them as a source material:

  8. #1138
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Dude its media matters. They cherry pick data relentlessly, quote out of context etc etc.

    If you believe them as a source material:
    Dude, that is ad hominem and it doesn't negate the truth of the matter, which I could substantiate with plenty of other sources if you'd prefer. For example, the MM link includes a direct quote from the CBO that disproves your claim.
    Last edited by AdamT; 07-07-12 at 03:10 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  9. #1139
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    07-25-17 @ 12:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    5,878

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The upper middle class and wealthy have most of the money in this country. The CBO report did not in fact adjust the cost upward, but rather downward, relative to previous estimates -- Fox News reporting notwithstanding.
    Huh?

    This report also presents estimates through fiscal year 2022, because the baseline projection period now extends through that additional year. The ACA’s provisions related to insurance coverage are now projected to have a net cost of $1,252 billion over the 2012-2022 period; that amount represents a gross cost to the federal government of $1,762 billion, offset in part by $510 billion in receipts and other budgetary effects (primarily revenues from penalties and other sources).
    CBO | CBO Releases Updated Estimates for the Insurance Coverage Provisions of the Affordable Care Act
    (note not 'Fox news')...


    But I'm sure your response will be 'different 10-year span' as you did in the previous post. Think about what that means...the bill was passed to recognize revenue 4 years before recognizing cost (full implementation in 2014). OF course moving the '10-year window' will affect the projections but what does that matter? If the cost projections were prepared from say 2011 thru 2016 (15yr) would you think the cost was more/less?

    Also of interest:

    Changes in the Economic Outlook. The March 2012 baseline incorporates CBO’s macroeconomic forecast published in January 2012, which reflects a slower recovery when compared with the forecast published in January 2011 (which was used in producing the March 2011 baseline).
    So when they first prepared projections their baseline was 'rosier' than now. What happens when at the end of this year their predictions of 'less rosy' economic conditions are more optimistic than actual? Ultimately only time will tell whether this is economically sound but it seems to me the more the affects are known the more the numbers are adjusted...in the 'wrong way'.

  10. #1140
    Sage
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,734

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Dude, that is ad hominem and it doesn't negate the truth of the matter, which I could substantiate with plenty of other sources if you'd prefer. For example, the MM link includes a direct quote from the CBO that disproves your claim.
    Im not making the claim for starters. I have trouble believing anything media matters says. Partisan robots may like their particular brand of nonsense, and Id like to thank you for self IDing yourself yet again, but MM doesnt work as a source. Its not an ad hom when their partisanship is part of their brand and destroys their credibility with the contortions, cherry picking of data and out of context quotes they engage in to craft their stories.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •