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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #1121
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Obama has four years of experience as the president of the United States. No governorship can remotely compare with that.
    I can't believe you wrote that Tea. So what experience did obama have in running a govt. prior to being elected. Four years in the Senate. (whoopee).

    Yet he had not experience prior. Using your logic McCain should of beat Obama hands down just in Senate experience.
    Using your logic, then guess the only people who should run for President are past Presidents. They would be the only people who have the "President" work experience.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    That someone like you calls him a miserable failure is proof enough he was fairly successful in doing stuff I wanted.

    too much spending yes but Gorebot would have spent more, and jacked up taxes and the pooch would have been really screwed. and we'd have two more quota picks like Gagan or Quotamayor on the supreme court

    Remind me when spending was in line with tax collections aka the deficit......

    Never mind Al Gore was VP and Bill Clinton was President the last time.

    Now then if you want American hegemony a la the PNAC model you get to pay for it because I certainly don't.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Remind me when spending was in line with tax collections aka the deficit......

    Never mind Al Gore was VP and Bill Clinton was President the last time.

    Now then if you want American hegemony a la the PNAC model you get to pay for it because I certainly don't.
    you mean when Newt and the GOP forced him to stop recklessly spend?

    Okie dokie

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you mean when Newt and the GOP forced him to stop recklessly spend?

    Okie dokie

    And taxes were raised.......

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Taxes in the law? Who bears the burden of these taxes?

    Penalties? I was only aware of the mandate penalty which has been repeatedly argued would only affect very few. If such is so the revenue from these penalties would be insignificant as related to the benefit you claimed. Or are there other penalties that I am unaware of?
    This is all well documented, right? There are taxes on Cadillac plans, which as y'all have pointed out, will disproportionately be enforced against union members, unless they change their plans before it takes effect. There are fees on medical devices. There is the mandate penalty, already discussed ad nauseum. There is a Medicare payroll tax hike that affects those making more than $200,000. There's a hike in capital gains on home sales that affects those who earn more than $500,000 on the sale of a home, etc.

    So generally the taxes and fees will affect upper middle class and wealthy folks.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    This is all well documented, right? There are taxes on Cadillac plans, which as y'all have pointed out, will disproportionately be enforced against union members, unless they change their plans before it takes effect. There are fees on medical devices. There is the mandate penalty, already discussed ad nauseum. There is a Medicare payroll tax hike that affects those making more than $200,000. There's a hike in capital gains on home sales that affects those who earn more than $500,000 on the sale of a home, etc.

    So generally the taxes and fees will affect upper middle class and wealthy folks.
    WOW...'upper middle class and wealthy folks' are union members and the only ones who use 'medical devices'...and of course they will be the ones who will pay the mandate penalty.

    Try again...

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    This is all well documented, right? There are taxes on Cadillac plans, which as y'all have pointed out, will disproportionately be enforced against union members, unless they change their plans before it takes effect. There are fees on medical devices. There is the mandate penalty, already discussed ad nauseum. There is a Medicare payroll tax hike that affects those making more than $200,000. There's a hike in capital gains on home sales that affects those who earn more than $500,000 on the sale of a home, etc.

    So generally the taxes and fees will affect upper middle class and wealthy folks.

    WTF are there even Cadillac plans? Ya want your own personal butler, chef, etc and pass that cost off on the insurance pool!

  8. #1128
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    WOW...'upper middle class and wealthy folks' are union members and the only ones who use 'medical devices'...and of course they will be the ones who will pay the mandate penalty.

    Try again...
    Try to take off the partisan goggles for a second. The unions will renegotiate their insurance plans by the time the tax would kick in. At the end of the day it will only apply to those for whom the tax is a barely noticeable inconvenience. The medical device tax will have some impact on middle class folks, but it will be hugely outweighed by the benefit received.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Try to take off the partisan goggles for a second. The unions will renegotiate their insurance plans by the time the tax would kick in. At the end of the day it will only apply to those for whom the tax is a barely noticeable inconvenience. The medical device tax will have some impact on middle class folks, but it will be hugely outweighed by the benefit received.
    My arguments are not partisan but rather those of a realist. As you know I have been incredibly skeptical on where the money is going to come from. The 'upper middle class and wealthy folks' do not make enough to pay for all the changes this administration desires, ACA included. Also, the adjusted CBO numbers released earlier this year were pretty significant revisions…up. Given the GDP growth and UE projections have been woefully inaccurate my skepticism becomes more founded as time passes. Hoping it will work out is merely dreaming…IMHO

    ps. Since the CBO will score PPACA again since the SCOTUS has ruled wanna wager which way the 'costs' move?

  10. #1130
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    I can't believe you wrote that Tea. So what experience did obama have in running a govt. prior to being elected. Four years in the Senate. (whoopee).

    Yet he had not experience prior. Using your logic McCain should of beat Obama hands down just in Senate experience.
    Using your logic, then guess the only people who should run for President are past Presidents. They would be the only people who have the "President" work experience.
    Of course not. However, its patently absurd to suggest that Romney or anyone else has better experience for the position of POTUS than the sitting POTUS. Anyone other than the sitting POTUS is going to have to learn the job. Yes, four years ago, Obama could only boast some experience in the US Senate. His inexperience was a valid issue. Now, however, he can boast four years experience as chief executive of the US... no one else (at least that is running and qualified to run) can make the same claim. Now, the issue of experience (or lack thereof) is an issue for Romney.

    The issue for the American people is going to be who is the better leader and executive years 2, 3 and 4 of the job. Can Romney learn the position fast enough in 1 year to be more effective than Obama with 5 years experience?
    Last edited by upsideguy; 07-07-12 at 01:31 AM.

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