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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #101
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Providing care to the 30 million more Americans who have nothing to offer to the pool means not only that per capita health care expenditures increase, but that the burden of covering them weighs down that much more heavily on... whoever has any money left.

    You are supposed to feel bad about that, yes. The goal here needs to be about suppressing the costs of medical care, not flinging ever more costs onto the taxpayer.
    Everyone who is covered under the Act has to contribute something. I don't feel bad about subsidizing health care for working families — sorry.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Everyone who is covered under the Act has to contribute something. I don't feel bad about subsidizing health care for working families — sorry.
    The extension of Medicaid to the working poor isn't the problem. The problem is that the health care quality of my kith and kin will decline. That wasn't necessary. Aren't you surprised that conservatives will not acquiesce?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Everyone who is covered under the Act has to contribute something.
    Even the poor saps who are struggling so much that they can't reasonable afford to pay much of anything?

    Then what ever is going to suppress the costs of over-priced medical care?

    I don't feel bad about subsidizing health care for working families — sorry.
    Well we already were before PPACA.

  4. #104
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    The extension of Medicaid to the working poor isn't the problem. The problem is that the health care quality of my kith and kin will decline. That wasn't necessary. Aren't you surprised that conservatives will not acquiesce?
    I think your kin will be alright, though I can't vouch for your kith.

    What was your alternative plan to extend Medicaid to the working poor without putting additional stress on the health care industry?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Even the poor saps who are struggling so much that they can't reasonable afford to pay much of anything?
    Those poor saps get standard Medicaid.


    Well we already were before PPACA.
    How so?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  6. #106
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Which is why a Free Market HC system like the United States had before Obamacare is vastly superior to the Socialized system the ACA is trying to force us into

    The elderly in the UK hospitals are dying from starvation and thirst because there is no money left, yet people like you amazingly believe that the quality and availability of HC in the US is going to improve because of Obamacare.
    Actually, there isn't any socialized medicine here, but the market rations as well. In fact, it rations perhaps a little more.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I think your kin will be alright, though I can't vouch for your kith.

    What was your alternative plan to extend Medicaid to the working poor without putting additional stress on the health care industry?
    Slash the military budget to the extent necessary to fund the extension of Medicaid. But it's too late to unring the bell now. The die is cast, and that is a terrible thing for America.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Those poor saps get standard Medicaid.
    Ah, right, so they don't have to pay anything. Anyone who has something left to pay though, must. Yes?

    From each according to his ability... you know the rest.

    How so?
    We've already been guaranteeing medical care indiscriminately, which ultimately forces whoever has money/income to cover the cost of all medical needs of the have-nots, assuming they can make their way to a hospital. Whether families had members who were working or not is irrelevant. Medical costs are incurred on the basis of need, and payment is shifted around and ultimately lands on whoever has the ability to pay. It is a predominantly communistic arrangement that ultimately pays for our health care.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 06-30-12 at 03:43 AM.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    NO, the costs don't just land on the freeloader, they hit everybody. Maybe later they sign up for full fledged insurance, maybe the vast majority of their costs are over the deductible anyways. Either way, the costs end up driving up the cost of insurance. Preventative care is way cheaper than treating preventable conditions. Like a tiny fraction of the cost.
    Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying at all. The costs end up driving up the costs of insurance? What does that sentence mean? How do HDHPs drive up the costs, and how does having an HDHP preclude getting preventative care? Do you know the cost of regular check ups compared to monthly premiums of average insurance? Unless someone else is paying for you, check ups are much cheaper.

    Finally, throwing terms like "freeloader" around aren't productive.
    Last edited by Republic Now!; 06-30-12 at 04:09 AM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Even the poor saps who are struggling so much that they can't reasonable afford to pay much of anything?

    Then what ever is going to suppress the costs of over-priced medical care?

    Well we already were before PPACA.
    If you make just over the minimums of the Federal Poverty Level and can only afford the bottom (Bronze) plan here's the deductibles, copays and coinsurance you have to look forward to.

    General percentage by level paid by consumer
    (through deductibles, copays and coinsurance)

    Bronze Level – 40%
    Silver Level – 30%
    Gold Level – 20%
    Platinum Level – 10%

    What kind of coverage will the plans sold through the health insurance exchanges include?
    Root Canal Cost: $1,000 per Molar

    May 12, 2009 By Julie Frey

    This survey found the average root canal fee is $740 for a front tooth and $1,000 for a molar, with three out of four dentists saying they perform posterior root canals.

    Root Canal Cost: $1,000 per Molar
    If you have a 2 tooth root canal and still haven't met your 40% deductible, Bring your VISA card because your portion of the bill will be $2000 X 40% = $800. That's assuming you pay the deductible as you go, it's unclear if you'll need to go all out of pocket till the yearly is met.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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