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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Lots of Constitutional lawyers agree with the President that the mandate should have come under the Commerce Clause - the SCOTUS disagreed with that view. How was the President to know in advance what the Court's ruling would be in the matter?
    my post had nothing to do with the POTUS merely disagreeing with anyone, it had to do with his complete failure to argue any legitimate reason why it wasn't a tax. In fact, during the entire interview he does nothing but dodge the question by articulating the benefits of the plan, then simply rejects the notion that it's a tax, without ever explaining why, when cornered on the issue.

    hence, it came of as someone trying to sell policy, disingenuously
    Last edited by Dr. Chuckles; 07-05-12 at 09:42 AM.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Four Supreme Court justices -- all conservative -- say that it isn't a tax. Are they lying, too?

    And of course Mitt Romney agrees with them ... and disagrees with them.

    You been living in a cave or was your hearing aid turned off?

    I hate to repeat this for the umpteenth time, but the Justice Dept, you know Obama's guys, argued before the SOTUS that this was a TAX. The Supreme Court allowed has how this was a TAX. So, where were you when all this went down?

    IT'S A TAX. And every swinging ****** is going to have to pay for it. Well, those that actually pay taxes are going to pay for it. Those on the govt dole will continue as planned.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    my post had nothing to do with the POTUS merely disagreeing with anyone, it had to do with his complete failure to argue any legitimate reason why it wasn't a tax. In fact, during the entire interview he does nothing but dodge the question by articulating the benefits of the plan, then simply rejects the notion that it's a tax, without ever explaining why, when cornered on the issue.

    hence, it came of as someone trying to sell policy, disingenuously
    [bold emphasis added by bubba]
    but we must also recognize that such public policy passed supreme court scrutiny
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    [bold emphasis added by bubba]
    but we must also recognize that such public policy passed supreme court scrutiny
    Surely, but not based on any argument articulated by Obama (if you can even call them arguments), in that interview. The inverse to this is that the republicans were moaning, immediately after that interview, how the president was a stupid liar and it was clearly a tax...

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Surely, but not based on any argument articulated by Obama (if you can even call them arguments), in that interview. The inverse to this is that the republicans were moaning, immediately after that interview, how the president was a stupid liar and it was clearly a tax...
    you want it both ways it seems
    it was Obama's solicitor who argued before the supreme court that the penalty was allowable under the tax provisions you and others insist
    but when that solicitor's argument prevails you then want to insist that Obama played no role in such argument
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you want it both ways it seems
    it was Obama's solicitor who argued before the supreme court that the penalty was allowable under the tax provisions you and others insist
    but when that solicitor's argument prevails you then want to insist that Obama played no role in such argument
    1) how do I want it both ways? first, I never really took a strong position on the supreme court case. Secondly, I'm pretty strongly pro-reform (though I do think the ACA is a cure that might be worse than the disease, and favor something more along the lines of single payer)

    2) I pointed to the original republican rejection to highlight that both sides were politically milking the mandate issue

    3) Anyone who makes an ass out of themselves, making hysterically disingenuous arguments, opens themselves up to criticism, even the president

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Surely, but not based on any argument articulated by Obama (if you can even call them arguments), in that interview. The inverse to this is that the republicans were moaning, immediately after that interview, how the president was a stupid liar and it was clearly a tax...
    What's amazing is that conservatives can't seem to recognize that this is a two-edged sword. Naturally they argued all along that the mandate was NOT a tax and was unconstitutional as an improper exercise of the commerce clause.

    In other words, BOTH sides argued that it was not a tax. But now that the SC has ruled that it is a tax penalty, somehow only OBAMA is a liar!

    Incredible.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Not sure if the above was directed at me, but that was the entire point of me posting that; to highlight the republican hypocrisy, as well

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    And rightly so. We were told numerous times this was not a TAX, the president. But IT'S A TAX. We were assured this was going to be paid for and we wouldn't have to change anything. "We the people" were lied to by everyone involved.
    A "tax" that you can choose not to pay. You know, like sales taxes.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    What's amazing is that conservatives can't seem to recognize that this is a two-edged sword. Naturally they argued all along that the mandate was NOT a tax and was unconstitutional as an improper exercise of the commerce clause.

    In other words, BOTH sides argued that it was not a tax. But now that the SC has ruled that it is a tax penalty, somehow only OBAMA is a liar!

    Incredible.
    Because even now, after the fact he has surrogates arguing that it is not, in fact, a tax. It is upheld only on the idea that the mandate is construed to be a tax---if it is not a tax, the bill is not legal as the commerce clause has limits to what it can do, but it is now argued that the tax power does not. Im not sure which is the worse idea, to be honest; government should have limits in all of its powers.

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