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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #1011
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    It still works, you can't talk about your original point.

    Apparently you didn't learn your tactic fails on the playground.

    Nah, your tactics fail, but keep on trying. I like this look on you.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    The conservative Heritage foundation is vindicated by the Supreme Court in its promotion of the insurance mandate!

    How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate

    "James Taranto, who writes the Wall Street Journal’s excellent “Best of the Web” column, put forth a lengthy and informative discussion yesterday on the conservative origins of the individual mandate, whose inclusion in Obamacare is today its most controversial feature on the Right.

    This came up at Tuesday’s Western Republican Leadership Conference Debate, where Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich tussled on the question:

    ROMNEY: Yes, we got it from you, and you got it from the Heritage Foundation and from you.

    GINGRICH: Wait a second. What you just said is not true. You did not get that from me. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.

    ROMNEY: And you never supported them?

    GINGRICH: I agree with them, but I’m just saying, what you said to this audience just now plain wasn’t true.

    (CROSSTALK)

    ROMNEY: OK. Let me ask, have you supported in the past an individual mandate?

    GINGRICH: I absolutely did with the Heritage Foundation against Hillarycare.

    ROMNEY: You did support an individual mandate?

    ROMNEY: Oh, OK. That’s what I’m saying. We got the idea from you and the Heritage Foundation.

    GINGRICH: OK. A little broader.

    ROMNEY: OK."


    How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate - Forbes
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  3. #1013
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    I believe you and I have posted about the scenerio of "Lucy/Charlie Brown/Football" before.

    President Obama said over and over and over this was not a TAX. And then his JD lawyers HAD TO ARGUE that it was a TAX to the Supremes, who ruled on the issue ONLY because it was a TAX.

    Now you want me to believe that I'm supposed to believe liars? It's a TAX. And the only way to pay for this monstrosity is to TAX those who pay taxes.
    Let me ask you, if you have insurance, what is your tax increase?

    But that has nothing to do with what i said. Let me repost:

    They are paying for them now, before reform. I don't think this is wonderful, but keeping the status quo, where we're not only paying, but paying a lot, doesn't seem like something those worrying about paying for others should want to go back to.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Let me ask you, if you have insurance, what is your tax increase?
    Everyone who didn't have coverage previously (because they couldn't afford it) but will have coverage now (and not be paying for it) creates increased tax burden on whoever's left in the group that's still paying taxes. The more people who can't pay squat for health care that we cover and give health care, the more that burden falls to taxpayers. And since we are all federally mandated to buy insurance, we might as well consider all health insurance costs essentially a tax. SCOTUS approves of it being called that, after all.

    They are paying for them now, before reform.
    That's the problem.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-03-12 at 06:14 PM.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Let me ask you, if you have insurance, what is your tax increase?

    But that has nothing to do with what i said. Let me repost:

    They are paying for them now, before reform. I don't think this is wonderful, but keeping the status quo, where we're not only paying, but paying a lot, doesn't seem like something those worrying about paying for others should want to go back to.
    Congress has been given the authority to tax you and/or make you pay a (fine/penalty) that was not a tax but is now a tax for NOT buying a private good or service, or engaging in a private contract with a corporation. That's what private health insurance companies are. Corporations. Obama can tax you for not buying their products using congress's taxing authority now. So in the future if some right winger gets a super majority he can pass a bill that will make you pay a penalty/tax that was not a tax but now is a tax for not buying a bible or a koran.

    You call that "Health Care Reform". I call it tyranny.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Everyone who didn't have coverage previously (because they couldn't afford it) but will have coverage now (and not be paying for it) creates increased tax burden on whoever's left in the group that's still paying taxes. The more people who can't pay squat for health care that we cover and give health care, the more that burden falls to taxpayers. And since we are all federally mandated to buy insurance, we might as well consider all health insurance costs essentially a tax. SCOTUS approves of it being called that, after all.



    That's the problem.
    If you don't like the conservative's insurance mandate, we can always upgrade to a public option like most of the rest of the industrialized world!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Congress has been given the authority to tax you and/or make you pay a (fine/penalty) that was not a tax but is now a tax for NOT buying a private good or service, or engaging in a private contract with a corporation. That's what private health insurance companies are. Corporations. Obama can tax you for not buying their products using congress's taxing authority now. So in the future if some right winger gets a super majority he can pass a bill that will make you pay a penalty/tax that was not a tax but now is a tax for not buying a bible or a koran.

    You call that "Health Care Reform". I call it tyranny.
    But your tax has not increased, as I assume you have insurance.

    And your definition of Tyranny may be a little hyperbolic.

    And you still haven't answered my original post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo
    They are paying for them now, before reform. I don't think this is wonderful, but keeping the status quo, where we're not only paying, but paying a lot, doesn't seem like something those worrying about paying for others should want to go back to.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #1018
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Everyone who didn't have coverage previously (because they couldn't afford it) but will have coverage now (and not be paying for it) creates increased tax burden on whoever's left in the group that's still paying taxes. The more people who can't pay squat for health care that we cover and give health care, the more that burden falls to taxpayers. And since we are all federally mandated to buy insurance, we might as well consider all health insurance costs essentially a tax. SCOTUS approves of it being called that, after all.



    That's the problem.
    Yep. It is simply income redistribution disguised as medical care reform. What used to be private medical care insurance is now the long awaited "public option". Of course to prevent panic it is still called "private", yet the minimum/maximum benefits, what must be no-cost, what the premiums can cost (and be based on) and how much overhead is allowed are ALL 100% gov't controlled, leaving the "private" insurance companies under 95% gov't control. That makes only paying CASH enable one to get better care (or to the head of the line) than the gov't allows, the only hole in the dike left, that must be quickly plugged, once the lines start to form for the rest of us. Yes he did!
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-03-12 at 07:24 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Congress has been given the authority to tax you and/or make you pay a (fine/penalty) that was not a tax but is now a tax for NOT buying a private good or service, or engaging in a private contract with a corporation. That's what private health insurance companies are. Corporations. Obama can tax you for not buying their products using congress's taxing authority now. So in the future if some right winger gets a super majority he can pass a bill that will make you pay a penalty/tax that was not a tax but now is a tax for not buying a bible or a koran.

    You call that "Health Care Reform". I call it tyranny.
    You can't be forced to buy something you already have and everbody has free healthcare at any emerency room. You now have to pay something for it and that burns you up. It is pretty ridiculous.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yep. It is simply income redistribution disguised as medical care reform. What used to be private medical care insurance is now the long awaited "public option". Of course to prevent panic it is still called "private", yet the minimum/maximum benefits, what must be no-cost, what the premiums can cost (and be based on) and how much overhead is allowed are ALL 100% gov't controlled, leaving the "private" insurance companies under 95% gov't control. That makes only paying CASH enable one to get better care (or to the head of the line) than the gov't allows, the only hole in the dike left, that must be quickly plugged, once the lines start to form for the rest of us. Yes he did!
    I don't keep up with Faux News, but is this the new RW talking point, that because the govt requires you to purchase HI, that HI corporations suddenly lost their "private" corporation designation? I just got done arguing this same point with another koo....er....."right winger" in another thread where he was making the same "point", so where exactly does this "idea" come from?
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