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Thread: Airbus's U.S. Plan Is a Long-Term Gamble

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    Re: Airbus's U.S. Plan Is a Long-Term Gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Has nothing to do with jobs. Boeing could give a rats ass about US jobs. Having your own main competitor in your backyard and biggest market, producing it jets at a lower price than normal will be a huge problem for Boeing. And then there is the technology aspect.. Airbus has been ahead here for years, and ahead in sales as well, while Boeing has been riddled with delays to its new aircraft plus various scandals, including the whole tanker thing.

    In the end, Airbus might be allowed to set up shop, but it will come at a cost to the US taxpayer since Boeing will need to be compensated some how.. so expect to see "cost overruns" of epic proportions on say the tanker deal and other military aircraft.

    Also it is not "jobs lost" in Europe per say... since Airbus is lacking capacity some what since it is outselling Boeing.


    Thats an interesting point Pete Boeing has alot of political support here...it may be creation of some jobs and the loss of some others...stopping it entirely, umm I dunno in this climate.

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    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: Airbus's U.S. Plan Is a Long-Term Gamble

    Airbus see's rising protectionist sentiments in America. Moving plants into the US is the only way to bypass the inevitable Tariffs.

    What happens, like in all other foreign manufacturing plants that move here, is that they run on skeleton crews on idle waiting for the moment Protectionism comes back.
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    Re: Airbus's U.S. Plan Is a Long-Term Gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Airbus see's rising protectionist sentiments in America. Moving plants into the US is the only way to bypass the inevitable Tariffs.

    What happens, like in all other foreign manufacturing plants that move here, is that they run on skeleton crews on idle waiting for the moment Protectionism comes back.
    Considering that it got ganked on the tanker contract by Boeing, I can't blame EADS. Besides access to the U.S. market, another consideration has to be the cost of production: No unions to deal with in a right-to-work, "at will" employment state.
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    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: Airbus's U.S. Plan Is a Long-Term Gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Considering that it got ganked on the tanker contract by Boeing, I can't blame EADS. Besides access to the U.S. market, another consideration has to be the cost of production: No unions to deal with in a right-to-work, "at will" employment state.
    ....and all this talk about unions and stuff means nothing while these plants run on idle waiting for Tariffs.
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    Re: Airbus's U.S. Plan Is a Long-Term Gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Thats an interesting point Pete Boeing has alot of political support here...it may be creation of some jobs and the loss of some others...stopping it entirely, umm I dunno in this climate.
    This plant will take years to set up and get permissions for. Once the election is over, then you have 2 years to block this deal. After all blocking the tanker deal by Congres and giving it to Boeing also cost "new jobs" since many parts of the Airbus tankers were to be made in the US.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Airbus's U.S. Plan Is a Long-Term Gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Bull****. The tanker deal is an epic scandal of national bias.

    First Boeing was award the contact but it was then cancelled when people found out that there was massive corruption involved in getting the deal.

    Then Airbus got the contract after another round of bidding, but that pissed of Congress so much that investigations and what not were started and the deal yet again was cancelled.

    Finally Boeing was awarded the contact yet again, in large part to "friendly" congressional nationalism.
    I can see you know positively Jack and s#!t about this and Jack left town.

    I will enlighten you.

    2004 1st contract was a airplane lease deal the WAS stupid from the get go. An ex Air Force procurement Officer and a Boeing director went to jail for corruption.

    2008 2nd contract awarded to Airbus but Boeing filed a protest because the Air Force kept changing the contract requirements to favor the Airbus plane. Boeing's protest was upheld and the contract was rebid. Congress had nothing to do with this other than blustering in the Media this was the GAO that made the decision.

    2010 3rd contract awarded to Boeing based on the merits of the plane. There is very close scrutiny of the schedule and costs this time around.

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    Re: Airbus's U.S. Plan Is a Long-Term Gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by mtlhdtodd View Post
    2010 3rd contract awarded to Boeing based on the merits of the plane. There is very close scrutiny of the schedule and costs this time around.
    The Airbus was a better plane; it had more capacity and longer range. Too bad politics had to cloud the selection process:

    Military planners likely concluded in devising rules for the current contest that a Boeing tanker, made in Seattle and supported by Democrats, stood a greater chance of quickly gaining funding from a Democrat-controlled Congress than EADS' Republican-backed tanker, said aerospace analyst Richard Aboulafia.

    Boeing could face a foreign invasion in tanker bidding - Chicago Tribune
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    Re: Airbus's U.S. Plan Is a Long-Term Gamble

    Boeing and Air Bus produce roughly 1,000 planes annually, with an average price tag of $ 100 million. Over time, the split has favored Boeing 60-40.

    Boeing's move to South Carolina was brilliant. They become much more competitive with SC labor costs and tax incentives, state, local, property tax abatements. They get their entire supplier base to follow the move, this allow them to benefit in their parts purchasing and create an efficient supply line. They also benefit from a much younger population of new hires, with better health profiles, lower health benefits, and cheaper health costs in the state.

    Objectives are clearly to either push airbus down to a lower share or force the Europeans to provide more subsidies. This is a dollar market where Airbus competes with Euro-based costs. The Euro has gone from parity to 1.25 over the last 5 years. This means that with a 100 million dollar airplane, which made 20 million dollars profit on parity five years ago, assuming 60 million of Euro costs, at 1.25, total cost of production have increased by 15 million on that transaction alone. This means a loss is being felt by Airbus.

    Boeing has streamlined its production into Right to Work states to reduce costs. The SC move coincided with the transition of fuselage production to Italy and Texas. he next move was to buy back, five years after being certified by the FAA, Vought’s plant for the 787 as well as 50% of Vought’s share in Global Aeronautics. The company then made the commitment to increase production of the 787 from 120 units to 240, with an additional plant on the SC site

    Boeing and Air Bus are not the only players in the game. The Brazilians in particular have become a major entity in the market, with clear cost advantages. The Congress will not opposed to FDI.

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    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: Airbus's U.S. Plan Is a Long-Term Gamble

    I wonder how the Southerners feel about being Cheap-Domestic-Labor pool?




    "We're cheap and proud of it."

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    Re: Airbus's U.S. Plan Is a Long-Term Gamble

    Quote Originally Posted by mtlhdtodd View Post
    I can see you know positively Jack and s#!t about this and Jack left town.

    I will enlighten you.

    2004 1st contract was a airplane lease deal the WAS stupid from the get go. An ex Air Force procurement Officer and a Boeing director went to jail for corruption.

    2008 2nd contract awarded to Airbus but Boeing filed a protest because the Air Force kept changing the contract requirements to favor the Airbus plane. Boeing's protest was upheld and the contract was rebid. Congress had nothing to do with this other than blustering in the Media this was the GAO that made the decision.

    2010 3rd contract awarded to Boeing based on the merits of the plane. There is very close scrutiny of the schedule and costs this time around.
    I see the GOP propaganda machine has done its magic.. how about looking at the facts? The Airbus plane was the better plane.. its only drawback.. it was not Boeing.
    PeteEU

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