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Thread: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    However, fraud isn't protected speech.

    Jesse McAdams, anyone?
    but fraud is already illegal; nothing in this ruling changes that fact
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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    How often does this even happen? Why was this worth spending congressional time on in the first place?
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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    How often does this even happen? Why was this worth spending congressional time on in the first place?
    Because our national situations change from time to time and Congress needs to examine new issues?

    I think a majority of us can agree that a jerk posing as a service member is pitiable. And it does really make me mad just as flag-burning does. But this is "harmless." If opportunity is being gained/fraud is being committed, there are already laws in place to deal with this.

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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    In the aftermath of the Obamacare decision, this one flew under the radar, but it is revealing something very important about the political makeup of the court, and the direction that Chief Justice John Roberts is taking. Although the majority opinion was written by Kennedy, Roberts once again sided with the Liberal faction of the court in striking this law down.

    I'm sorry, but I don't buy "first amendment" here. Those who wear medals that they never earned do not deserve any of the valor that they steal from those who actually fought and possibly died to earn theirs. This decision is flawed, and although this would have passed without Roberts' vote, I am disappointed that Roberts would side with those scumbag liars who steal what isn't theirs.

    And now the question that we are dying to know the answer to - Could John Roberts be the next David Souter?

    Article is here.
    As much as I really hate when people claim to be ex-soldiers, wearing the uniform and the medals, I believe that it is indeed a freedom of speech issue. Remember, your speech is protected. But you are not protected from being offended. I hate the WBC yet I still think they have the right to protest. So for me this issue is the same.
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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    As I said earlier, our Legislative Branch should get smarter about the way they conduct business. When something is blantantly wrong, everyone knows its wrong, but the Constitution does not allow you to change it, you have to find other ways. Those ways usually make it harder for the citizens that will benefit as well. As the proposal I made earlier would. I don't believe it is usurping the Constitution in this particular case. It is simply reclassifying government used/issued documents. You can call that an end around, whatever you like. But it works, it doesn't infringe on freedom of speech, and it allows the military to keep a close hold on their awards system. It would also (LOL) create jobs because someone has to create the database I mentioned and someone has to distribute the items. Of course, when you have idiots like the 2 below running our gov't, what do you expect? Certainly not creative thinking.
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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I think they made the right decision. This is kind of like the Westboro Baptist Church stuff. Yes, it's despicable, but that's what free speech is about.

    Although in this case, it's kind of hard to take advantage of, since I would imagine in a lot of cases if you lied about being a soldier to gain some sort of benefit (other than respect you didn't earn), that would be fraud, and you could still be prosecuted for it.
    Good point. As putrid as the WBC are they have the freedom of speech. Stifle their speech then the next political party in power may stifle your freedom of speech.

    If we made it a criminal offense then what do we about 1/2 truths?

    In this upcoming billion dollar political season we are going to see hundreds of half-truths, do they classify as illegal? We just recently saw a thread on a FOX news report that Obama wanted silverware taken away from Hispanics at a luncheon he was speaking at. The attempt was to show that Obama didn't trust hispanics but after some research it was shown that the secret service has done this before other groups. Would this be considered lying and illegal? It is all a slippery slope in deciding laws.

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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I believe Congress just needs to do a better job of writing the bill. There has to be some gray area to exploit on this. One such way would be to make medals and the citations associated with them a For Official Use Only protected item. An explanation is below:

    UNCLASSIFIED/FOUO- is primarily a Department of Defense phrase/acronym, used for documents or products which contain material which is exempt from release under the Freedom of Information Act. It is treated as confidential, which means it cannot be discarded in the open trash, made available to the general public, or posted on an uncontrolled website. It can, however, be shared with individuals with a need to know the content, while still under the control of the individual possessing the document or product

    From a military member point of view, this makes it much harder for me to properly wear my uniforms. The reason being that this would require all medals, ribbons, and devices that are associated with any sort of military award or accomplishment be pulled from the PX. Then, it would require a tighter hold on them by an outside agency that has some sort of military liaison (because you know it would get contracted to civilians) that knows how to read FOUO documents. It would also require personnel in isolated locations to jump through hoops to get their uniform items. It would require a new, joint service database with all awards in it so all award/device distribution centers can see if someone rates the medal they are attempting to buy. I'm sure there is a myriad of other issues I'm not thinking of as well. You know what? Thats all good with me if it keeps some dirt bag from posing.
    If certain medals & ribbons are made FOUO, it would seem you couldn't even wear them because no one has a "need to know" that you've earned them and/or you're making them "available to the general public" by wearing them. You'd also be possibly exacerbating the problem because, if the medals and ribbons are FOUO, then they can't be "posted on an uncontrolled website" so no one could know what they look like; an impostor wouldn't even need to procure a replica -- they could just make one up.
    Last edited by Grizzly Adams; 06-30-12 at 03:03 PM.

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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    It's not illegal for the same reason making any other self aggrandizing but relatively harmless claims about yourself isn't illegal. It would set a seriously bad precedent to criminalize such things.
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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    I disagree. I feel the law as written was applied to broadly. If they limited it to only cases where lying about MOH were fraud I'd be alright with it. But when it criminalizes speech where there is no material gain, it overreaches.
    I almost agree with you, think I think of how impersonating a police officer is always a crime no matter if you're trying to get something out of it (legal fraud) or not. But being awarded the MOH in this country does brings advantages. People are eager to give you a job, or virtually anything because we revere our heroes. So claiming you are a MOH recipient when you are not - it's always fraud.

    I'd just as soon the penalty under law be the public posting of your name, picture and what medal you falsely claimed, repeated for months. Let nature take it's course.
    Last edited by clownboy; 06-30-12 at 08:12 PM.

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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It's not illegal for the same reason making any other self aggrandizing but relatively harmless claims about yourself isn't illegal. It would set a seriously bad precedent to criminalize such things.

    I don't know why anyone would want to misrepresent themselves in this manner, unless they were seriously lacking in character in the first place. Do you?
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