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Thread: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I get pissed then I feel pity. How sad are you when you have to pretend to be someone else just to like yourself?
    I'm the opposite: I feel pity, and then I get pissed.

    Most of these people are just...sad, but here's an example of a creep described as a "grifter" who has posed as a Navy SEAL on dating sites and who's now been busted for posing as a Victoria's Secret owner and raping a 15-year old:

    Creepy grifter forced teen to have sex after*threatening to post explicit pics of her: feds* - NY Daily News

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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    reprehensible speech - even when stealing valor - is protected speech
    roberts got this one right
    I haven't followed this, but unfortunately I may have to agree. There may be a hole between the Constitution and the UMCJ that this falls through. People run around wearing uniforms all the time with military rank and insignia that aren't theirs. Nothing has ever been done. It could be that the law allowing the military and/or Congress to confer honors upon the military is difficient in some way; and there is where the remedy lies.

    Personally I think it is wrong, fraudulent and shameful for people to do this.
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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    I don't get it. How is this protected free speech again? We are living in a backwards world. I think the Supreme Court is ?#*&ing with us. They must laugh at us all over drinks after session.
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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    I don't get it. How is this protected free speech again? We are living in a backwards world. I think the Supreme Court is ?#*&ing with us. They must laugh at us all over drinks after session.
    someone says they experienced military action they did not is found to be a lie, not a crime. not illegal. lies are included under free speech (politicians depend on it)
    that differs from fraud. if someone lies about their military service, such that they then realized material benefits because of the lie, then they have engaged in fraud. that fraud remains illegal and subject to criminal prosecution
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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    someone says they experienced military action they did not is found to be a lie, not a crime. not illegal. lies are included under free speech (politicians depend on it)
    that differs from fraud. if someone lies about their military service, such that they then realized material benefits because of the lie, then they have engaged in fraud. that fraud remains illegal and subject to criminal prosecution

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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I haven't followed this, but unfortunately I may have to agree. There may be a hole between the Constitution and the UMCJ that this falls through. People run around wearing uniforms all the time with military rank and insignia that aren't theirs. Nothing has ever been done. It could be that the law allowing the military and/or Congress to confer honors upon the military is difficient in some way; and there is where the remedy lies.

    Personally I think it is wrong, fraudulent and shameful for people to do this.
    Of course. Nobody actually approves of this behavior, any more than people approve of the Westboro Baptist Church protesting at military funerals. But I absolutely think both should be legal. To restrict speech, you have to demonstrate some measurable harm that speech does to other people. Telling someone I got a purple heart in 'Nam does not do that. I'm not comfortable with Congress deciding this sort of speech is just too reprehensible so we have to restrict it even when its not harmful, but that sort of speech is totally ok. If we restrict lying about military service, why not restrict lying about police service? Being a firefighter? EMT? I'm a flight instructor, it's a dangerous job that I think deserves some respect, why can't we make it illegal to lie about being a flight instructor? Teachers are arguably just as important to our country's future as soldiers, why isn't it illegal to lie to people about being a teacher?

    Your religion is ok, but that one over there doesn't count because it's weird/wrong in my personal opinion.

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    Last edited by Deuce; 06-29-12 at 04:14 PM.
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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    But you are getting something material for it. The person that sparked this case was leveraging the respect from others for his lie, to gain a political seat. That seat comes with a salary, perks, and prestige. Most liars that claim something they are not like this are looking in some way to gain from it.
    In which case, prosecute him for fraud. There's no need to make lying about being in the military a separate crime, when doing so for material gain is already a crime.
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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    I believe Congress just needs to do a better job of writing the bill. There has to be some gray area to exploit on this. One such way would be to make medals and the citations associated with them a For Official Use Only protected item. An explanation is below:

    UNCLASSIFIED/FOUO- is primarily a Department of Defense phrase/acronym, used for documents or products which contain material which is exempt from release under the Freedom of Information Act. It is treated as confidential, which means it cannot be discarded in the open trash, made available to the general public, or posted on an uncontrolled website. It can, however, be shared with individuals with a need to know the content, while still under the control of the individual possessing the document or product

    From a military member point of view, this makes it much harder for me to properly wear my uniforms. The reason being that this would require all medals, ribbons, and devices that are associated with any sort of military award or accomplishment be pulled from the PX. Then, it would require a tighter hold on them by an outside agency that has some sort of military liaison (because you know it would get contracted to civilians) that knows how to read FOUO documents. It would also require personnel in isolated locations to jump through hoops to get their uniform items. It would require a new, joint service database with all awards in it so all award/device distribution centers can see if someone rates the medal they are attempting to buy. I'm sure there is a myriad of other issues I'm not thinking of as well. You know what? Thats all good with me if it keeps some dirt bag from posing.
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    Re: Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor law

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    reprehensible speech - even when stealing valor - is protected speech
    roberts got this one right
    However, fraud isn't protected speech.

    Jesse McAdams, anyone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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