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House holds holder in contempt [W:140

ThePlayDrive said:
Exactly. The Clinton impeachment was about politics and this is about politics. Anybody who says that this is an attempt to do something genuine and out of concern for the country is either delusional or full of ****. It's the M.O. of the right to do this just like it's the M.O. of the left to drop the ball.
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I think people have been pretty up front about the self serving senators and congresspeople. If they "luck" into a good deed regardless of party then I am all for it.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Meh, in my real life, all the same liberals who derided Bush for EP are doing the same for Obama. I haven't seen those patterns of consistency on the right. /shrug
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I haven't seen this in the media, or on DP. Hell, I can't find a liberal that has derided Obama for abusing his EP to cover for the DOJ.
 
Arbo said:
I haven't seen this in the media, or on DP. Hell, I can't find a liberal that has derided Obama for abusing his EP to cover for the DOJ.
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Even so, I didn't claim that a bunch of liberals are deriding Obama as they did Bush, but that the same people who derided Bush are doing the same to Obama, in my life. These are people who have a problem with hiding information, period, and in my experience, those people tend to be liberal which is why they are consistent.

I, personally, don't think either abused EP. I think that both just used to EP to either 1) legitimately protect sensitive information or 2) avoid the consequences of things they'd rather not make public. The thing is that people often don't like it when the other side invokes EP because it means they can't complete the witch hunt they started. That's exactly what I see with this Holder stuff.
 
akyron said:
I think people have been pretty up front about the self serving senators and congresspeople. If they "luck" into a good deed regardless of party then I am all for it.
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I would be all for it if people "lucked" into good deeds with their own party as well, but that doesn't really happen.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Even so, I didn't claim that a bunch of liberals are deriding Obama as they did Bush, but that the same people who derided Bush are doing the same to Obama, in my life. These are people who have a problem with hiding information, period, and in my experience, those people tend to be liberal which is why they are consistent.
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Again, I don't see any of this, nor do I see liberals as one's who have a problem with lack of transparency... Show me a gaggle of liberals that have complained about Obama's promises of 'most transparent' being shown to be false and this administration actually being one of the more secretive. I can't find them.

I, personally, don't think either abused EP. I think that both just used to EP to either 1) legitimately protect sensitive information or 2) avoid the consequences of things they'd rather not make public. The thing is that people often don't like it when the other side invokes EP because it means they can't complete the witch hunt they started. That's exactly what I see with this Holder stuff.
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Yes, that's how you see it because of your own bias. EP came about as a method for the executive branch to keep private internal conversations, sort of as a separation of powers thing (since it's not in the constitution as a 'power'). It has been used by the executive branch, for the executive branch. It was never meant to be used by the executive branch to 'cover' for a different branch. That is what Obama did with his use of it.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Teatards, hmm, thats nice. Anyway, how is it wasting my money when they are supporting, promoting, and legislating what I believe in? I believe AG Holder should have been held in contempt. What citizen in this country can do what he did with no repercussion? The Congress says hand it over, you do it. No matter what party, race, etc you are.
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As you said, Holder played chicken with the House and lost. He refused to comply with subpoenas; he was found in contempt.
 
nota bene said:
As you said, Holder played chicken with the House and lost. He refused to comply with subpoenas; he was found in contempt.
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Obviously you don't believe in facts, Holder did comply he has offered up away more documents and has testified more than he should have had to...Issa wanted way more than he was entitled to, quite obviously on a fishing expedition..read the Fortune magazine article.. Educate yourself it's really powerful to know the facts before you post ridiculous stuff on the boards!
 
Arbo said:
That would make a total of one. Great job if you speak for all of them, eh?
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LOL now you are moving the goalposts?

You said:

Hell, I can't find a liberal that has derided Obama for abusing his EP to cover for the DOJ.
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you couldn't find A liberal (that means one in case you are having trouble reading again). You were proven wrong. Figures you can't even man up to your mistakes.
 
Debra said:
Educate yourself it's really powerful to know the facts before you post ridiculous stuff on the boards!
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Now that's funny considering the part you wrote before the above.

TheNextEra said:
you couldn't find A liberal (that means one in case you are having trouble reading again). You were proven wrong. Figures you can't even man up to your mistakes.
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Sorry, I don't have time to read every thread and every post. Having a job will do that to you.

So you have shown there is one, which as I have suggested, does not indicate it is the norm on the left. Do you suggest otherwise?
 
Arbo said:
Again, I don't see any of this, nor do I see liberals as one's who have a problem with lack of transparency... Show me a gaggle of liberals that have complained about Obama's promises of 'most transparent' being shown to be false and this administration actually being one of the more secretive. I can't find them.
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I don't have to show you anything. You don't have to see something for it to exist. I suspect, that like most people, you see whatever aligns with your current perception of reality and liberals criticizing Obama for his lack of transparency is not part of that. But I will say this, many on the left have taken issue with his transparency since 2009.

Yes, that's how you see it because of your own bias. EP came about as a method for the executive branch to keep private internal conversations, sort of as a separation of powers thing (since it's not in the constitution as a 'power'). It has been used by the executive branch, for the executive branch. It was never meant to be used by the executive branch to 'cover' for a different branch. That is what Obama did with his use of it.
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It's funny that you just accused me of seeing it that way because of "my own bias," when I said that I don't think either side abused it. So, what is it? I'm biased in favor of Democrats AND Republicans? Wow, that's genius.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
But I will say this, many on the left have taken issue with his transparency since 2009.
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Yes, I know you assert this, and have backed it up with the absurd statement that 'you don't have to see something for it to exist'. We are not talking about quantum physics...

It's funny that you just accused me of seeing it that way because of "my own bias," when I said that I don't think either side abused it. So, what is it? I'm biased in favor of Democrats AND Republicans? Wow, that's genius.
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The inability to see the difference can show bias. In your case, you say that neither side abused it, which means you do not view a guy on your side, using it to 'cover' a different branch of government as abusive. When that was not the intent of EP.
 
Prof. Peabody said:
Just to bottom line it for you. Law Enforcement has a duty to preserve life and follow all the laws.




This is what we are talking about here. Law Enforcement officials, they had a "duty to act" as soon as they started losing track of the Assault Rifles in question. Common sense and duty to law enforcement dictates once they lost track of guns, shut the program down. They didn't do that. They failed to foresee that allowing untracked assault rifles in the hands of murderous drug cartels would constitute a "wanton disregard for human life". After all they were not allowing tire pressure gauges to cross the border, they were dealing with assault rifles. Folks in the Obama administration are going to jail. It would be helpful if they policed themselves, or we'll do it for 'em and they won't like the results.
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What if the laws in Arizona made it impossible to seize those guns legally? Was it law enforcements job to break the law and seize guns illegally? Shutting the program down would not have stopped any guns either but that is your solution? How would shutting the program down saved a single life or stopped a single gun?
The criminals here are the NRA and their lobby that have emasculated our laws making enforcement impossible and strawman purchasers welcome in gun stores around our nation.
 
Wiggen said:
Yeah, it's brilliant. Screw the Constitutition, screw governing, lets go on the partisan witchhunt . Sad.
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How exactly are they saying screw the Constitution again? How about the AG ignoring a subpoena? How do those apples taste to you?
 
Arbo said:
Yes, I know you assert this, and have backed it up with the absurd statement that 'you don't have to see something for it to exist'. We are not talking about quantum physics...
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That's not how I "backed up" my report of reality, that's how I dismissed your useless "I haven't seen it" comment.

The inability to see the difference can show bias. In your case, you say that neither side abused it, which means you do not view a guy on your side, using it to 'cover' a different branch of government as abusive. When that was not the intent of EP
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I remember when I used to bull**** like this on my papers in college.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
That's not how I "backed up" my report of reality, that's how I dismissed your useless "I haven't seen it" comment.
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Yeah, it's far more useless than 'in my life.' :roll:

I remember when I used to bull**** like this on my papers in college.
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Wasted money on a college education I see. Good on you.

AdamT tried to say the scope of EP was not limited as such, perhaps you can pick up where he failed and tell everyone where EP comes from, and what it's scope of use is generally understood and accepted to be. Once the scope is established, it is easy to determine if it was abused. So have at it champ.
 
Another note on this. I think it was disgraceful that the Dems walked out on the vote. We, thats all of us posting here, pay these people to do a job. American people can't just walk out on the job when they disagree with something. They shouldn't be allowed to either. They should have at least voted "present". I don't care what party someone belongs to, they should do the job we hired them to do. I'm not going to bring in the "disrespect to Brian Terry" angle on this. This is a matter of politicians that are accusing other politicians of grandstanding, then, trying to out-grandstand them with their own grandstanding. How old are these people? Thats something my 6 year old son would do. I can't remember if the Republicans have done this recently, but if they have, they're just as childish.
Last thing, has anyone ever watched the proceedings for stuff like this on CSPAN? It ridiculous how our gov't is run. These long winded idiots get up, state things they know aren't facts, the other side disputes it, then another idiot gets up and recycles the same argument. Its dumb, stupid, repeat on Capital Hill. For instance, this case should have been cut and dry. One question could be asked. Did AG Holder turn over the documents subpoenaed? Answer: No. Response: The contempt vote will now be held. Simple as that. This could be applied to most cases. I'm just using this one as an example.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Another note on this. I think it was disgraceful that the Dems walked out on the vote. We, thats all of us posting here, pay these people to do a job. American people can't just walk out on the job when they disagree with something. They shouldn't be allowed to either.
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I agree. But it's not a first for the left. Wasn't it not all that long ago a bunch of them did it in Texas, not just walking about but leaving the state? Or some silliness like that.

Not that it makes it right, but I'd guess those on the right have done the same BS at some time in the past as well.
 
jpevans said:
It's not as if the ATF sold guns to criminals, as Issa has implyed, they were powerless to make arrests only survail, there are countless ways to loss a "Tail".
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Powerless? Really? Why do they exist then. Do you know how big of a load 100 assault rifles are? You'd need at least a large box truck. Has the ATF never heard of GPS auto trackers?
jpevans said:
Yet Issa didn't call on the Prosicuters who refused to act on the evidence presented. Instead they went after the Top of DOJ, without doing an investigation of those actually involved & working up as high as it went, they (Issa) were only interested in nailing Holder & through him President Obama, two (Black) birds with one stone. :doh :peace
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The gun runner should have been arrested while at the border crossing or are we to believe they carried them one by one across the desert? Are we equally to believe that allowing assault rifles and hand grenades across the border that could potentially cause an international incident was approved by some low level flunkie? That would take what Hillary called a willful suspension of disbelief.
 
Arbo said:
I agree. But it's not a first for the left. Wasn't it not all that long ago a bunch of them did it in Texas, not just walking about but leaving the state? Or some silliness like that.

Not that it makes it right, but I'd guess those on the right have done the same BS at some time in the past as well.
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Texas House paralyzed by Democratic walkout


I am thinking it happened more recently in Wisconsin with that whole dancing and rioting in the streets Walker thing.

He was cutting expenses and they tried to cut his throat.
 
Debra said:
Obviously you don't believe in facts, Holder did comply he has offered up away more documents and has testified more than he should have had to...Issa wanted way more than he was entitled to, quite obviously on a fishing expedition..read the Fortune magazine article.. Educate yourself it's really powerful to know the facts before you post ridiculous stuff on the boards!
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Actually I watched the hearings and it seems pretty much the opposite. Holder was asked repeatedly to take the whole situation offline and explain his reasoning but he refused. "No" is pretty simple and clear to me.

INVESTIGATION | Fast and Furious Investigation

The hearing list is there along with the "facts".

Chicken is a bit dramatic but he did refuse to comply with a lawful subpoena.

No one is above the law. Or at least its supposed to be that way.


The videos are both educational and interesting at times.
 
akyron said:
Texas House paralyzed by Democratic walkout


I am thinking it happened more recently in Wisconsin with that whole dancing and rioting in the streets Walker thing.

He was cutting expenses and they tried to cut his throat.
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Yeah, forgot about Wisconsin. Pretty pathetic... of course the defenders of such actions say they are 'protesting' and that is their right. Um, no, the public protests, they are the law makers, it's their job to vote. Protest on their own time, just like we have to.
 
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