• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

House holds holder in contempt [W:140

Eighty Deuce said:
From dumb to dumber.

As for the Fortune article, which is long, this is what it shows. The the local ATF were powerless to prosecute. They let the gun sales occur, They set it all up. They did everything they could to set cases up for prosecution. They were ready to bust multiple folks this side of the border.

And Justice said "Nope".

Holder and the DoJ are guilty as sin. They used the ATF like cannon fodder.
Click to expand...

The reason they said NOPE is that you can't prosecute someone who hasn't broken the law, and Arizona's gun laws are so lax that it's all but impossible to make a case.
 
Arbo said:
Oh, yeah, rather that prosecute the leakers, let's just never, ever, ever, ever, let congress do their investigational duties again. :roll:
Click to expand...

18 months, almost a dozen hearings, 8,000 pages of documents.... Sometimes you've just got to admit that there's nothing there. Oh yeah, and let's not forget that Issa denied every single request by Democratic members to hold hearings and call witnesses. But nah ... Nothing partisan about this investigation. :roll:
 
AdamT said:
Apparently 2000 pages was enought to provide a far better understanding than Issa has managed to put together from 8000 pages. And Holder did NOT say that there were 140,000 pages of relevant information. He said they reviewed that many pages LOOKING for relevant information.
Click to expand...

Holder said he reviewed 140,000 documents looking for the information that Issa requested. Are you saying that Holder looked for the pertinent information outside the scope of Fast and Furious? Why would he look through documents not related to Fast and Furious for information about it? Is he that disorganized and overwhelmed? Heck according to Al Sharpton, Holder turned over 140,000 documents to Issa and the Huffington Post printed his guest article without even attempting to verify it. And I'll ask again: How did Fortune Magazine get ahold of 2,000 pages of classified ATF documents?

Rev. Al Sharpton: Attorney General Eric Holder Has Been 'Stopped and Frisked'
 
jerry7 said:
Holder said he reviewed 140,000 documents looking for the information that Issa requested. Are you saying that Holder looked for the pertinent information outside the scope of Fast and Furious? Why would he look through documents not related to Fast and Furious for information about it? Is he that disorganized and overwhelmed? Heck according to Al Sharpton, Holder turned over 140,000 documents to Issa and the Huffington Post printed his guest article without even attempting to verify it. And I'll ask again: How did Fortune Magazine get ahold of 2,000 pages of classified ATF documents?

Rev. Al Sharpton: Attorney General Eric Holder Has Been 'Stopped and Frisked'
Click to expand...

Have you ever done discovery? I'm guessing not. I've had cases where I reviewed 20,000 pages and came away with five that were relevant.
 
AdamT said:
Have you ever done discovery? I'm guessing not. I've had cases where I reviewed 20,000 pages and came away with five that were relevant.
Click to expand...

I believe you. lol. Any comments on Rev Al's assertions that Holder turned over 140,000 documents to the racist Issa? And any theories as to how Fortune got their hands on 2,000 classified pages?
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
What about the death of Brian Terry? Don't the Democrats care about his death from a weapon that was part of Fast and Furious?
Click to expand...

That poor man would have been dead if F&F NEVER existed. Killed by drug lords that purchased guns from a straw purchaser who bought them legally at a gun store in Arizona. Try as they might there was no way to prosecute the strawmen or seize those guns legally. The prosecutors said they did nothing illegal that could be proven under current law.
These are the facts and anyone who would spin them into the ATF allowing guns to "walk" and being responsible for Terry's murder deserves to be brought up on libel charges.
 
Last edited:
jerry7 said:
I believe you. lol. Any comments on Rev Al's assertions that Holder turned over 140,000 documents to the racist Issa? And any theories as to how Fortune got their hands on 2,000 classified pages?
Click to expand...

Oh look you playing the race card yet again in a different thread.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
From dumb to dumber.

As for the Fortune article, which is long, this is what it shows. The the local ATF were powerless to prosecute. They let the gun sales occur, They set it all up. They did everything they could to set cases up for prosecution. They were ready to bust multiple folks this side of the border.

And Justice said "Nope".

Holder and the DoJ are guilty as sin. They used the ATF like cannon fodder.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute..I thought the ATF was the bad guy? Now you are questioning the judgment of State prosecutors as far away as New York?
This thing must be huge, with Holder controllling 1000's of prosecutors. He may not even be from this planet......

Oh wait, this whole thing is over and done....see ya in 3 years or so
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
jerry7 said:
I believe you. lol. Any comments on Rev Al's assertions that Holder turned over 140,000 documents to the racist Issa? And any theories as to how Fortune got their hands on 2,000 classified pages?
Click to expand...

No, I have no comments on Sharpton one way or another. Conservatives seem to be the only ones who ever mention him. :lol:

And I have no idea how the author of the article got access to the documents. Obviously she has some pretty good sources.
 
Just to bottom line it for you. Law Enforcement has a duty to preserve life and follow all the laws.

Criminally negligent manslaughter

Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales. In Scotland and some Commonwealth of Nations jurisdictions the offence of culpable homicide might apply.

It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of willful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.

Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim.

Manslaughter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


This is what we are talking about here. Law Enforcement officials, they had a "duty to act" as soon as they started losing track of the Assault Rifles in question. Common sense and duty to law enforcement dictates once they lost track of guns, shut the program down. They didn't do that. They failed to foresee that allowing untracked assault rifles in the hands of murderous drug cartels would constitute a "wanton disregard for human life". After all they were not allowing tire pressure gauges to cross the border, they were dealing with assault rifles. Folks in the Obama administration are going to jail. It would be helpful if they policed themselves, or we'll do it for 'em and they won't like the results.
 
Last edited:
Moderator's Warning:
OK, there have been infractions and thread banned issued in this thread. Any further attacks and MORE will be levied.
 

It's not as if the ATF sold guns to criminals, as Issa has implyed, they were powerless to make arrests only survail, there are countless ways to loss a "Tail". Yet Issa didn't call on the Prosicuters who refused to act on the evidence presented. Instead they went after the Top of DOJ, without doing an investigation of those actually involved & working up as high as it went, they (Issa) were only interested in nailing Holder & through him President Obama, two (Black) birds with one stone. :doh :peace
akyron said:
It is a little witchy but lets not forget that someone died over it so I am thinking the family would disagree with the "Nothing" to it statement.

Win some and lose some. At least this one wont cost us a ton of money.
Click to expand...
 
There is more evidence of Rep. Issa's wrong doing in even making AG Holder the focus of a hearing about the ATF's failure to follow legally purchused guns to the point where they were smuggled across the border into Mexico. Of course in every investigation one would shoot for the top, by starting at the bottom & working their way up. Issa has shot for the top & losing credibility on the gun walking fron, changed the focus to E.P. & whether his which hunt is justified in asking for papers that would be a violation of Federal Law to make public.
Issa has publicly stated that Holder (& implyed Obama) allowed guns to walk, in order to impose threats to the second amendment. That conspericy theory, in it's self is grounds for a sanity hearing, IMO. :peace
Albert Di Salvo said:
That's a supposition without any evidence to support it.
Click to expand...
 

That the state of Arizona allows a teenager with no visible means of support & no police record, to walk into a gun shop & buy 100 weapons at once, doesn't have a thing to do with it? That it is legal is the reason that Arizona is the top supplier of Mexican Drug Cartels. You can't fault ATF for not making arrests for legal transactions, Issa has purposly distorted the facts of the case. His conspericy theory may be self fufilling, as he has managed to draw public attention to the laxity of selling multible gun's at one time. If they (NRA) haven't scared the D's too much. :peace
Taylor said:
It is a racial matter.

Holder and the Obama administration clearly have no respect for the lives of those living south of the border.
Click to expand...
 
Your Star said:
It just doesn't make sense that people who loved the EP when Bush was in office hates it now, seems like nothing but a political witch-hunt.
Click to expand...

Of course no problem with the people who loved to complain and deride EP when Bush was in office that love it and use it now...
 
Zyphlin said:
Of course no problem with the people who loved to complain and deride EP when Bush was in office that love it and use it now...
Click to expand...

Im am curious. At exactly what point does PO become president and responsible for the welfare of the US?

I dont think its happened yet according to some.
 
Your Star said:
It just doesn't make sense that people who loved the EP when Bush was in office hates it now, seems like nothing but a political witch-hunt.
Click to expand...
Exactly. The Clinton impeachment was about politics and this is about politics. Anybody who says that this is an attempt to do something genuine and out of concern for the country is either delusional or full of ****. It's the M.O. of the right to do this just like it's the M.O. of the left to drop the ball.
 
Zyphlin said:
Of course no problem with the people who loved to complain and deride EP when Bush was in office that love it and use it now...
Click to expand...
Meh, in my real life, all the same liberals who derided Bush for EP are doing the same for Obama. I haven't seen those patterns of consistency on the right. /shrug
 
jpevans said:

It's not as if the ATF sold guns to criminals, as Issa has implyed, they were powerless to make arrests only survail, there are countless ways to loss a "Tail". Yet Issa didn't call on the Prosicuters who refused to act on the evidence presented. Instead they went after the Top of DOJ, without doing an investigation of those actually involved & working up as high as it went, they (Issa) were only interested in nailing Holder & through him President Obama, two (Black) birds with one stone. :doh :peace
Click to expand...


That actually leads to another issue. If they had been enforcing immigration then its possible the mexican "hormigas" would not even be able to illegally cross the border and purchase the guns.

Regardless, that take on the story is refuted by the agents on the ground at the time.

"His agents told a different story to a congressional committee. They testified that they were instructed by supervisors not to move in and question the buyers but to let the guns go and see where they ended up. They called their actions "gun-walking.""
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom