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Thread: House holds holder in contempt [W:140

  1. #231
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    Re: House holds holder in contempt [W:140

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier, replying to Karl View Post
    So, why did the Feds argue it was a tax if it isn't? [...]
    Why ask a question when you already know the answer?

  2. #232
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    Re: House holds holder in contempt [W:140

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier, replying to another View Post
    [...] [1] You don't seem to have a problem with Dems telling you what to buy. [2] I'd like to see when the GOP tries it. As a matter of fact, President Bush I initially had the idea for the individual mandate (with help from the Heritage Foundation) and Dems wouldn't support it.
    1. The Dems know that everyone needs health insurance; otherwise they suffer, and everyone else pays. If you're about to stick a fork into a electrical outlet, and someone tells you not to do that, do you have a problem with them?

    2. GOP infighting is what killed the individual mandate back in the day; at the time, the Dems were trying to pass Hillarycare (the individual mandate was the GOP counter proposal, but about the time Clinton indicated there was room to compromise, the GOP killed their own plan):

    In 1994 Sen. Don Nickles (R., Okla.) and Rep. Cliff Stearns (R., Fla.) turned the Heritage plan into a bill. Peter Ferrara and others, such as Tom Miller at the Cato Institute, rallied other conservatives against the plan. “By endorsing the concept of compulsory universal insurance coverage,” wrote Miller, “Nickles-Stearns undermines the traditional principles of personal liberty and individual responsibility that provide essential bulwarks against all-intrusive governmental control of health care.”

    Ferrara convinced 37 leaders of the conservative movement, including Phyllis Schlafly, Grover Norquist, and Paul Weyrich, to sign a petition opposing the bill. “To this day,” Peter writes, “my relationship with Stuart Butler and Heritage has never recovered.”

    The Tortuous History of Conservatives and the Individual Mandate - Forbes

  3. #233
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    Re: House holds holder in contempt [W:140

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You didn't have to read the actual bill to understand what the mandate was. You could have just read a newspaper or any of the dozens of summaries available online.

    Personally I have no problem with mandates that make sense: uninsured driver insurance, seat belts, air bags, catalytic converters, background checks, etc., etc.

    And again, the isurance mandate is a Republican idea.
    I do understand what the mandate is. Its an attempt by Dems to make me buy something. As to your other examples, there are a few problems with them.
    Driver insurance: A) Its a state mandate, not Federal B) Not everyone has to have it C) Everyone has to have health insurance according to the ACA.
    Seat belts: Should not be required because it protects me from myself. I have no issue with laws that protect other people from me. I also think a person would have to be stupid not to wear a seatbelt. But I don't think the gov't should be able to tell me to.
    Air Bags: Protects me from myself again.
    Catalytic converters: No issue there. We need to protect the environment and it protects everyone from that one idiot who wouldn't have it if the law didn't exist.
    Background checks: Be more specific about that please.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  4. #234
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    Re: House holds holder in contempt [W:140

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The weapons weren't allowed to illegally cross the border. Thanks to Arizona's insanely lax gun laws, ATF had no legal grounds to interdict them.
    Why weren't they stopped at the border? You can't export guns without the proper paperwork.

    22 CFR 123.17 - Exports of firearms and ammunition.

    § 123.17

    Exports of firearms and ammunition.

    (a) Except as provided in § 126.1 of this subchapter, Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit the export without a license of components and parts for Category I(a) firearms, except barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames) or complete breech mechanisms when the total value does not exceed $100 wholesale in any transaction.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/123.17
    I doubt any of the guns that was across the border was under $100. They could have been stopped and arrested at the border.
    Last edited by Prof. Peabody; 07-06-12 at 12:52 AM.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: House holds holder in contempt [W:140

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Why weren't they stopped at the border? You can't export guns without the proper paperwork.
    I'm guessing that they weren't declared.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: House holds holder in contempt [W:140

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I'm guessing that they weren't declared.
    So if it's that easy to drive a truck load of guns across the border, how is it the State of Arizona's fault and not the Federal Government who is supposed to CONTROL the border?
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

  7. #237
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    Re: House holds holder in contempt [W:140

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    So if it's that easy to drive a truck load of guns across the border, how is it the State of Arizona's fault and not the Federal Government who is supposed to CONTROL the border?
    How do you know they aren't coming in by plane? In any case, if it wasn't possible for any moron to BUY a truckload of guns in Arizona it would be a lot easier to deal with.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  8. #238
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    Re: House holds holder in contempt [W:140

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    How do you know they aren't coming in by plane? In any case, if it wasn't possible for any moron to BUY a truckload of guns in Arizona it would be a lot easier to deal with.
    Are you against all states rights, or just the one's in relation to guns?
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: House holds holder in contempt [W:140

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Are you against all states rights, or just the one's in relation to guns?
    How long have you been beating your wife?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  10. #240
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    Re: House holds holder in contempt [W:140

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    How long have you been beating your wife?
    Can't answer a simple question? Thanks for making that clear.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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