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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Kandahar said:
Does $500 per person per year really seem that unreasonable to you? And if so, are you suggesting that the subsidy be increased? Because I could get on board with that.

If you think that $500 is too much to spend on health insurance for an entire year, how on earth do you think they're going to be able to pay for an expensive medical bill?



:roll:
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Actual Family Contribution: $2,070
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Maybe you missed this?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

AdamT said:
$2000/yr. when the average family policy runs about $15,000 seems like a pretty good benefit to me.
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Think about this for a minute. Does it even seem plausible? I mean the median income is like what around $50k which means half of the population makes that or less. IF they have insurance now it costs $15k (per you) AND the $2k is correct they will get a ~85% reduction in cost with PPACA. Where is all this money going to come from?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

upsideguy said:
At the end of the day, which it is, it was a good day for Americans.... we still have the 37th best healthcare system in the world, but at least we took a step forward.

View attachment 67130111

A good day. Many before Obama worked to move the ball down the field. Perhaps Obama doesn't get the TD of national healthcare, we we'll settle for the FG.


Its now time to put this silliness behind us and move on to real issues; like the economy.
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Since this it tied permanently to the economy, I think not.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Prof. Peabody said:
Maybe you missed this?
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Right, $2070 for a family of four...in other words $500 per person per year. That hardly seems unreasonable for a middle-class family. And in any case, I thought you were *against* the ACA? Are you actually arguing for more subsidies because you believe that it's the right thing to do, or are you merely vomiting up every criticism you can think of, and hoping that someone buys into one of them?

This kind of ignorant tribal politics is what led to the odd spectacle of conservatives to pose as the defenders of Medicare when the ACA was working its way through Congress. It's what led to the odd spectacle of conservatives abandoning the individual mandate (for which they had spent the past 20 years laying the groundwork) as unconstitutional and socialist. And it's what now leads you to criticize the ACA for not being generous *enough* with subsidies. You don't actually believe what you're saying, so why should *I* believe what you're saying? :roll:

But for what it's worth, I'd vote for your plan to provide even more subsidies to lower- and middle-class people for health care. Heck, I'd vote to give it to them for free.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Navy Pride said:
I would not hold my breath on that........You gotta pay for all those 40,000,000 uninsured my left wing friend...
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you mean those "poor" people you are so concerned about? I bet the GOP has some compassionate conservatism left over somewhere. or was that conservative compassion?
 
Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

hazlnut said:
I love that far-right talking point on this is "See, it is a tax, it is a tax. He's raising taxes." They're all embracing a weak parsing of words to make a meaningless point.


Hey Tea Party and Very-Conservatives:

Explain this --


If conservatism is about personal responsibility, then why should people NOT purchase health care if they can afford it? Why should people of means be allowed to just show up at the emergency room and get free health care?

Do you want to pay the bill for a young married couple who would rather spend money on a nice new BMW than buy the minimum health coverage -- but they wrap that nice new BMW around a tree while touring Napa Valley. They were young and healthy and invincible, so why should they worry about health coverage? It's they're "right" to no be covered. Damn Obama and his socialism, now they have to be responsible citizens and postpone napa until they can really afford it. Damn Mitt Romney and the Heritage foundation for inventing and testing the individual mandate at the state level.

With the GOP it seems that personal responsibility only applies to the unemployed people who got laid off their job--those bums need to get a job. But people with money can get a free ride in the emergency room.

I await an explanation.
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Because, no matter how good an idea something is, or the public policy reasons behind a proposed legislation, none of that matters if the law is unconstitutional.

I'm sure someone's already said this but there are far too many posts to read.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Kandahar said:
Right, $2070 for a family of four...in other words $500 per person per year. That hardly seems unreasonable for a middle-class family. And in any case, I thought you were *against* the ACA? Are you actually arguing for more subsidies because you believe that it's the right thing to do, or are you merely vomiting up every criticism you can think of, and hoping that someone buys into one of them?

This kind of ignorant tribal politics is what led to the odd spectacle of conservatives to pose as the defenders of Medicare when the ACA was working its way through Congress. It's what led to the odd spectacle of conservatives abandoning the individual mandate (for which they had spent the past 20 years laying the groundwork) as unconstitutional and socialist. And it's what now leads you to criticize the ACA for not being generous *enough* with subsidies. You don't actually believe what you're saying, so why should *I* believe what you're saying? :roll:

But for what it's worth, I'd vote for your plan to provide even more subsidies to lower- and middle-class people for health care. Heck, I'd vote to give it to them for free.
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$50,000 a year for a family of four is NOT middle class my friend. $500 a month each just may make the difference between those kids eating tonight or not. Your compassion is breathtaking.

Public opinion of the health care law

June 28, 2012 10:36 AM

Since it was enacted over two years ago, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, President Obama's signature piece of legislation, has never been especially popular with the American public. Just 34 percent approve of the health care law, according to a CBS News/New York Times Poll released earlier this month, while 48 percent disapprove. Other recent polls also show more oppose the law than support it.

Overall opinions of the health care law have barely wavered since its passage in March 2010, and support for it has never reached 50 percent in CBS News Polls. Back in May 2010, two months after it was passed, 43 percent of Americans approved of the law - that's the highest percentage to date.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57462689/public-opinion-of-the-health-care-law/
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I guess that's why Obama Care is so popular. The Democrats will finally be run out of DC in November.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Dickieboy said:
Think about this for a minute. Does it even seem plausible? I mean the median income is like what around $50k which means half of the population makes that or less. IF they have insurance now it costs $15k (per you) AND the $2k is correct they will get a ~85% reduction in cost with PPACA. Where is all this money going to come from?
Click to expand...


Printing presses and China.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Prof. Peabody said:
http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resources/reports/premiums01282011a.pdf

Nothing in there about advancing premium payments.

http://web.archive.org/web/20101027...eReform/CRS/HealthInsurancePremiumCredits.pdf

Old link that was taken down for obvious reasons.



LOLOLOLOL! A family of 4 attempting to survive on less than $50,000 a year will still have to cough up $2070 a year or $172 a month. I'm sure they'll vote for Obama in November.
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my son teaches High School science in AZ, has been for about 12 years, he has 3 kids....his school district pays for his health care insuralnce, but charges almost $12K per year to cover medical for his wife and kids. He got his own from a company outside his employer for about half that. Their annual deductible per dependent is $1500, and his oldest child has been dealing with an inoperable brain tumor for about 6 years, so her deductible is a given. So, they are paying $7500 right from the start, before anyone else gets sick. And of course if they do, they each have a deductible to meet before the insurance company starts paying....
.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Dickieboy said:
Think about this for a minute. Does it even seem plausible? I mean the median income is like what around $50k which means half of the population makes that or less. IF they have insurance now it costs $15k (per you) AND the $2k is correct they will get a ~85% reduction in cost with PPACA. Where is all this money going to come from?
Click to expand...

First of all, the poverty line for a family of four is $27,000 so the subsidy kicks in at about $35,000 for a family of four. Because more employers will be required to provide insurance for low-wage employees, the number covered by subsidies will be less than you might think. The money for the subsidies comes from penalties, taxes and fees. According to the CBO the Act will lower deficits at the end of the day.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Kandahar said:
Does $500 per person per year really seem that unreasonable to you? And if so, are you suggesting that the subsidy be increased? Because I could get on board with that.

If you think that $500 is too much to spend on health insurance for an entire year, how on earth do you think they're going to be able to pay for an expensive medical bill?



:roll:
Click to expand...


Where'd the buying insurance for $500 to $600 per year under ObamaCare come from?That's just false. It will be thousands of dollars a year and more than it is now.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

UtahBill said:
my son teaches High School science in AZ, has been for about 12 years, he has 3 kids....his school district pays for his health care insuralnce, but charges almost $12K per year to cover medical for his wife and kids. He got his own from a company outside his employer for about half that. Their annual deductible per dependent is $1500, and his oldest child has been dealing with an inoperable brain tumor for about 6 years, so her deductible is a given. So, they are paying $7500 right from the start, before anyone else gets sick. And of course if they do, they each have a deductible to meet before the insurance company starts paying....
.
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I'm sorry for your grandson's problems. What make you think Obama Care will cover that?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

joko104 said:
Where'd the buying insurance for $500 to $600 per year under ObamaCare come from?That's just false. It will be thousands of dollars a year and more than it is now.
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Your source?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

AdamT said:
First of all, the poverty line for a family of four is $27,000 so the subsidy kicks in at about $35,000 for a family of four. Because more employers will be required to provide insurance for low-wage employees, the number covered by subsidies will be less than you might think. The money for the subsidies comes from penalties, taxes and fees. According to the CBO the Act will lower deficits at the end of the day.
Click to expand...

Will they receive a check or tax credits?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Prof. Peabody said:
$50,000 a year for a family of four is NOT middle class my friend. $500 a month each just may make the difference between those kids eating tonight or not. Your compassion is breathtaking.
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No. Not $500 a month.
 
Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

X Factor said:
Because, no matter how good an idea something is, or the public policy reasons behind a proposed legislation, none of that matters if the law is unconstitutional.
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It's strange how the individual mandate had been tossed around for 20 years (mostly by Republican politicians and conservative intellectuals) and in all that time, no one ever noticed it was unconstitutional. It's strange how the entire constitutional argument against it seemingly came out of nowhere in 2009 when the Democrats put it in THEIR bill. It's ALMOST as though conservatives/Republicans concocted a constitutional objection out of whole cloth because they didn't want the Democrats getting credit for a major piece of legislation. Why, if I didn't know better I might even think that they were unprincipled, nihilistic hacks!
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Prof. Peabody said:
Will they receive a check or tax credits?
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As I wrote above, they can apply for advance credits which can go directly to the insurer to reduce monthly premiums.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Prof. Peabody said:
$50,000 a year for a family of four is NOT middle class my friend. $500 a month each just may make the difference between those kids eating tonight or not.
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Umm $50,000 is actually ABOVE the median household income in this country. If you can't feed a family of four on $50,000, you're doing it wrong. And the individual premium is not $500 a month, it's $500 for an entire YEAR.

Your compassion is breathtaking.
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Like I said, I'd gladly support more generous subsidies. But again, you don't actually believe what you're saying. Criticizing the ACA from the left is not going to get it repealed. What else you got?
 
Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

Kandahar said:
It's strange how the individual mandate had been tossed around for 20 years (mostly by Republican politicians and conservative intellectuals) and in all that time, no one ever noticed it was unconstitutional. It's strange how the entire constitutional argument against it seemingly came out of nowhere in 2009 when the Democrats put it in THEIR bill. Why, it's ALMOST as though conservatives/Republicans concocted a constitutional objection out of whole cloth because they didn't want the Democrats getting credit for a major piece of legislation.
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And what did the Dems say about it when it was a Republican idea? ;) I've said it before, I like the idea of the mandate (if nothing else, it's nice to see people suddenly so on board with actually mandating personal responsibility) but I genuinely think it's blatantly unconstitutional. Can you not see even the possibility for legitimately believing that?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

AdamT said:
According to the CBO the Act will lower deficits at the end of the day.
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Huh?

Over the 10-year period from 2012 through 2021, enactment of the coverage provisions of the ACA was projected last March to increase federal deficits by $1,131 billion, whereas the March 2012 estimate indicates that those provisions will increase deficits by $1,083 billion.

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-13-Coverage Estimates.pdf
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

joko104 said:
Where'd the buying insurance for $500 to $600 per year under ObamaCare come from?That's just false. It will be thousands of dollars a year and more than it is now.
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The example on the Treasury Dept's website was a family of 4 earning $50,000, who opted for the least expensive health insurance plan. With the federal subsidies, their expected family contribution is $2,070...or about $500 per person per year.

http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/Documents/36BFactSheet.PDF
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Kandahar said:
Umm $50,000 is actually ABOVE the median household income in this country. If you can't feed a family of four on $50,000, you're doing it wrong. And the individual premium is not $500 a month, it's $500 for an entire YEAR.



Like I said, I'd gladly support more generous subsidies. But again, you don't actually believe what you're saying. Criticizing the ACA from the left is not going to get it repealed. What else you got?
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ObamaCare is not about fairness or cost, it is about taking gov't control of 1/6 of the U.S. GDP; medical care. Yes he did!
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

ttwtt78640 said:
ObamaCare is not about fairness or cost, it is about taking gov't control of 1/6 of the U.S. GDP; medical care. Yes he did!
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Even if true what is the problem with that?
 
Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

X Factor said:
And what did the Dems say about it when it was a Republican idea? ;)
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Some said it was a bad idea, others said it would be better than nothing. I'm not aware of ANY Democrats objecting to it on constitutional grounds.

I've said it before, I like the idea of the mandate (if nothing else, it's nice to see people suddenly so on board with actually mandating personal responsibility) but I genuinely think it's blatantly unconstitutional. Can you not see even the possibility for legitimately believing that?
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I guess it depends what you mean by "legitimately believing that." I believe that you've whipped yourself into such a frenzy that you believe it *now*. But no, I don't believe that you or anyone else now objecting to it had any such objections before it was included in the ACA (even though the individual mandate was hardly an unknown policy idea at the time). Why? Because such objections simply did not exist anywhere across the political spectrum until the Republican Party decided to abandon the individual mandate en masse in 2009. Some of them flip-flopped so fast that they started denouncing it as unconstitutional before they had even removed their own names from OTHER bills containing an individual mandate.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

winston53660 said:
Even if true what is the problem with that?
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If you really have to ask that question, l;ikely, no answer of mine will ever be able to explain it to you adequately. He just TOOK control of 1/6th of the ENTIRE GDP of the United States of America. Add to that the public secotr, and now you could say that the government DIRECTLY controls fully HALF of GDP.


What happens when there are more public employees than private?
 
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