• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Obamacare will - imo - sharply increase the average amount of money Americans spend on healthcare.

Once again, most Americans prove that they simply do not understand how 'supply and demand' works.
 
CriticalThought said:
Um...it's pretty simple.

It was a fine as envisioned by Obama and the Democrats.

It was defined as a fine in the law.

It was argued to be a fine by the lawyers who represented it.

It was supported as a fine by the lower courts.

It was made into a tax by the Supreme Court ruling.

The whole, "Obama and the liberals said this wasn't a tax, but it is." argument is a losing one, because the Supreme Court ultimately made it into a tax through their interpretation.
Click to expand...

no, it's no ta losing argument.... lots of folks have said from teh beginning that it's a tax.
that's not because they wanted to assign a bad label to it, but because of the mechanisms of it.... the IRS is charged with assessing the tax, fer christ sake.

the argument that doesn't stand up to scrutiny is the argument put forward by the administration and it's supporters.... that of this not being a tax.... sorry, but it doesn't fly.
 
mac said:
I'm just thouroughly amazed at the fact the the SCOTUS only approved the bill's constitutionality under congress' right to tax and yet the far lefties here want to still claim that it is not a tax.

The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

Redress said:
Who is claiming it is not a tax?

mac said:
Obama.

He claimed there was no new tax.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Really?? Obama is posting here???

Which poster is he?

... well, you are right about cognitive dissonance, only it's not where you think it is.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Sheik Yerbuti said:
So when do my taxes go up?
Click to expand...

When millions of illegals flood your states medicaid program. Hold on to your wallet, your property taxes are taking off like a Poseidon missile.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

mac said:
Not in the least...but you will see.
Click to expand...

Sure ... uh-huh.

Hey, if I collected a dollar every time someone told me to wait and see, then my taxes really would go up.

:lamo
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Really?? Obama is posting here???

Which poster is he?

... well, you are right about cognitive dissonance, only it's not where you think it is.
Click to expand...


Wow, semantic word games with colors....It feels so 2nd grade.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Kandahar said:
Nope, I have no problem with it being a tax, a penalty, a giraffe, or anything else you like, as long as it's the law of the land. :2wave:

I don't know what you're talking about. I never said liberals don't support the individual mandate, I said that most liberals would prefer to have a public option or single-payer instead.
Click to expand...

Folks making more than 133% of the Federal Poverty Level and you pay for insurance or pay the $600 a year tax. A single person making over $14,856 would have to pay for insurance (on $14,856, really?) or $600 tax. A married couple with no kids making over $20,122 a year would be required to pay for insurance for 2 or the tax for 2. A family of 4, 2 adults and 2 kids making over $30,656 a year would have to buy insurance for 4 or pay double the tax for the adults. I'm sure that'll make Obama and the Democrats popular in November.
 
Last edited:
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Sure ... uh-huh.

Hey, if I collected a dollar every time someone told me to wait and see, then my taxes really would go up.

:lamo
Click to expand...

Are you on government assistance?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Thrilla said:
Jan. 1st, 2013 the tax increase on the rich takes effect.... 2 tax increases actually... both medicare surtaxes.
a 3.8% increase on investment income.. and a .9% increase on earned income.

google it if you think i'm full of it.
Click to expand...
The original discussion was paying for the uninsured.
You're talking about Medicare taxes (and for those not following this vein, those are taxes on over-$200K filers).
Hopefully no other explanation is needed.

BTW, "google it" is lame.

BTW, you were "full of it" :mrgreen: (yes, you were right on the taxes, but they are Medicare taxes).

Navy Pride said:
I thought when he was running Hussein Obama said no tax hikes for the middle class............Well who does he think is going to pay for the huge tax increase caused by Obama Care.......The biggest tax increase in the history of this country.............Remember this you people who are undecided when you go to the polls in November......
Click to expand...
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Kandahar said:
Nope, I have no problem with it being a tax, a penalty, a giraffe, or anything else you like, as long as it's the law of the land. :2wave:



I don't know what you're talking about. I never said liberals don't support the individual mandate, I said that most liberals would prefer to have a public option or single-payer instead.
Click to expand...


no need to call it a giraffe..... calling a tax a tax is the honest thing to do.

politically speaking, it puts Obama in the position of having to answer for his ... untruthfulness.... and imposing a substantial tax increase .
there's a reason he argued that it's not a tax.. he didn't want to have to defend against a tax increase... so he called it a giraffe in hopes that folks won't know the difference.
Obama is a smart dude.... and there is no way in hell I believe that he didn't know this was a tax from the outset.
 
mac said:
Ok, I'll have to work on proving you wrong. It's late and I don't feel like digging. But....how about the fact that SCOTUS declared, legally, that it was a new tax. How do you feel about that ****, partisano?

edit: btw, I really could give a **** about the 15k new IRS agents...the new tax is rock solid.
Click to expand...

How in the hell do you have a new tax when it has been in the law all along?

So will you admit your claim about the 15k IRS agents is not true?
 
315473_10150882255531167_814871018_n.jpg
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

j-mac said:
Are you on government assistance?
Click to expand...
What is the incessant right wing fascination with the private aspect of other posters' personal lives?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

j-mac said:
Truth hurts doesn't it....I can always tell, when there is no retort other than your lame attempt at mockery.
Click to expand...
Dude .. what hurts is my foot and your ass after you posted that BS diatribe about DEATH PANELS when any notion of such was removed from the bill before Obama signed it.

But g'head, keep pretending like that wasn't a good ass-kicking. Your persistence only makes me laugh harder. :lamo
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Prof. Peabody said:
Folks making more than 133% of the Federal Poverty Level and you pay for insurance or pay the $600 a year tax. A single person making over $14,856 would have to pay for insurance (on $14,856, really?) or $600 tax. A married couple with no kids making over $20,122 a year would be required to pay for insurance for 2 or the tax for 2. A family of 4, 2 adults and 2 kids making over $30,656 a year would have to buy insurance for 4 or pay double the tax for the adults.
Click to expand...


So the last one, family of 4 making over $30K, sounds like a $2400 tax...That family now doesn't pay that in federal tax on the entire income....So Obama is doubling the taxes, net, for poor working families....
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Dude .. what hurts is my foot and your ass after you posted that BS diatribe about DEATH PANELS when any notion of such was removed from the bill before Obama signed it.

But g'head, keep pretending like that wasn't a good ass-kicking. Your persistence only makes me laugh harder. :lamo
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the IPAB doesn't exist in the law?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Karl said:
The original discussion was paying for the uninsured.
You're talking about Medicare taxes (and for those not following this vein, those are taxes on over-$200K filers).
Hopefully no other explanation is needed.

BTW, "google it" is lame.

BTW, you were "full of it" :mrgreen: (yes, you were right on the taxes, but they are Medicare taxes).
Click to expand...

no need to post that I was right.. I already knew I was.

and no , I was not "full of it" ...read my post again, I specifically said "both medicare surtaxes".... apology accepted in advance.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

DA60 said:
Obamacare will - imo - sharply increase the average amount of money Americans spend on healthcare.

Once again, most Americans prove that they simply do not understand how 'supply and demand' works.
Click to expand...

Well since you understand how supply and demand works, you should realize that Obama's healthcare plan would increase the supply to the medical industry. According to the law of supply and demand, this should reduce healthcare costs.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Prof. Peabody said:
Folks making more than 133% of the Federal Poverty Level and you pay for insurance or pay the $600 a year tax. A single person making over $14,856 would have to pay for insurance (on $14,856, really?) or $600 tax. A married couple with no kids making over $20,122 a year would be required to pay for insurance for 2 or the tax for 2. A family of 4, 2 adults and 2 kids making over $30,656 a year would have to buy insurance for 4 or pay double the tax for the adults.
Click to expand...

People earning up to 400% of the federal poverty line will be eligible for subsidies. And if for some reason those aren't sufficient, there is a financial hardship exemption in which case they won't have to pay it.

I'm sure that'll make Obama and the Democrats popular in November.
Click to expand...

I'm not too worried about it. :lol:
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Prof. Peabody said:
When millions of illegals flood your states medicaid program. Hold on to your wallet, your property taxes are taking off like a Poseidon missile.
Click to expand...

Great, yet more empty threats. :roll: The law prevents my property taxes from increasing more than 3% annually.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Thrilla said:
no need to call it a giraffe..... calling a tax a tax is the honest thing to do.
Click to expand...

OK, then it's a tax. What now?

politically speaking, it puts Obama in the position of having to answer for his ... untruthfulness.... and imposing a substantial tax increase .
Click to expand...

I'm sure he's just worried sick about that, after the horrible day he had today. :lol:

there's a reason he argued that it's not a tax.. he didn't want to have to defend against a tax increase... so he called it a giraffe in hopes that folks won't know the difference.
Obama is a smart dude.... and there is no way in hell I believe that he didn't know this was a tax from the outset.
Click to expand...

Yep, it's called political salesmanship. And Obama is what's called a politician.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Thrilla said:
I have no problem eating that this is the law of the land( it a good strict constitutionalist interpretation)... but you seem to have a big problem with the fact that this is a tax....
do what you must to convince yourself it's not a tax, i'll stick with facts.

wasn't it you that lied to me about liberals not supporting this mandate a while ago? .. and now here you are ... supporting it. :lol:
Click to expand...

Only one justice argued that it was a tax. 4 justices argued that it was a provision under the commerce clause. So the only argument you can make is that this is a composite logic that resulted in a majority decision.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Prof. Peabody said:
Folks making more than 133% of the Federal Poverty Level and you pay for insurance or pay the $600 a year tax. A single person making over $14,856 would have to pay for insurance (on $14,856, really?) or $600 tax. A married couple with no kids making over $20,122 a year would be required to pay for insurance for 2 or the tax for 2. A family of 4, 2 adults and 2 kids making over $30,656 a year would have to buy insurance for 4 or pay double the tax for the adults. I'm sure that'll make Obama and the Democrats popular in November.
Click to expand...
You left out the subsidies:

  • Medicaid eligibility will be bumped up to 133% of the American poverty threshold.
  • Sliding scale of subsidies for insurance purchase for Americans earning between 133% and 400% of the poverty threshold.

ObamaCare Explained « MTL ECONOMIST
Click to expand...
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Kandahar said:
People earning up to 400% of the federal poverty line will be eligible for subsidies. And if for some reason those aren't sufficient, there is a financial hardship exemption in which case they won't have to pay it.

I'm not too worried about it. :lol:
Click to expand...

Adam T already tried that. A tax credit doesn't mean crap to anyone who can't afford it in the first place.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom