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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Albert Di Salvo said:
I wonder if Chief Justice Roberts was intimidated by liberal threats to delegitimize the Supreme Court? That's the new meme.
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Or could he have heard the Conservatives call to not legislate from the bench? We'll never know, sigh.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

vendur said:
Ok, you lost the debate on the issue entirely and now you just deflecting since you have no arguments.
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Can't lose a debate we're not having. There is nothing to debate hear. You're merely being hyperbolic. What you say exists doesn't. It is as simple as that. There is no theft.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

clownboy said:
Wow, to both the raising of your premiums and that you have only been working since 99. :mrgreen:

For the last couple decades I've been self-employed - which means I pay for my own healhcare insurance. Every two to three years the premium would rise 10 to 20 dollars a month. But since Obamacare, every six months it has risen.
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Considering the main provisions of the ACA haven't even taken effect yet (and won't until 2014), I'd chalk it up to coincidence. If you have an individual policy, whether the ACA will cause your premiums to rise or fall depends on a variety of factors...your income, your age, your health, etc. If you are young, healthy, and at least middle-class, then it's true that you'll likely see your premiums rise...(although that will be balanced out as you get older and get a better deal). If you are older, or have any preexisting conditions, or struggle to pay your bills, then your premiums will almost certainly fall when the ACA takes effect in 2014.

Self-employed people are actually one of the groups that should benefit the most from this, as it eliminates many of the worst abuses that exist in the individual insurance market.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Boo Radley said:
They do charge you. But the claim was about effectiveness. As for redundancy, takes me to those calls to India and how many times I had to repeat the same thing, over, and over, and over, over . . . . I may go eight grade anyway.
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Of course they charge me for services I choose to purchase. The private sector, IMO, is heads above the govt.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

Thunder said:
SCOTUS chose to call it a tax, not Obama.

its not really a tax, as taxes are not supposed to be punitive. SCOTUS has quite an imagination.
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See, I'm confused....why did the US attorney argue that the mandate was legal under the Congress' right to tax, then?
 
Thunder said:
the penalty is in the form of a fee....but SCOTUS chose to call it a tax.

that's their choice.
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T or F: Direct taxes not based on population are unconstitutional.

T or F: A "tax" levied directly on an individual, conditional on purchasing something from a company, is a direct tax not based on population.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Helix said:
i completed graduate school that year. jobs previous to that year did not offer health insurance, so i was covered on my parents' plan before 1999.
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Cool, and I apologise for ribbing you about it. Just thought it was kinda cute, I'm in that mood, the grandkids just stopped by for a moment.

I joined the workforce in 63 at the age of 12 (had to file for a SS number - they didn't give them at birth then).

Helix said:
i'm sure that the amount varies between plans. since getting burned by an HMO that tried to get out of paying an emergency room bill when i was in respiratory arrest because i panicked and went to the emergency room when i couldn't breathe instead of calling my doctor at 2 am to get him to refer me to the emergency room, i generally buy the best plan i can get.

if my parents hadn't had a little clout with the hospital, i would have been totally screwed, and the emergency room bill would have cost around $1,500 with the HMO paying zero. there's something wrong with that.
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I agree, that does suck. I found a policy that fits my needs and my budget. But then I had a leg up on the discovery process, after teaching I went into nursing, so I knew what to look for in a policy.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

Thunder said:
SCOTUS chose to call it a tax, not Obama.

its not really a tax, as taxes are not supposed to be punitive. SCOTUS has quite an imagination.
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By declaring it a tax the court avoided giving Congress the dreaded "new power". It was quite carefully thought out I think.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

mac said:
Have you lost your limited ability to reason? The individual mandate was upheld due to congress' right to tax.

It's pretty simple....unless of course, you don't understand the individual mandate.
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I was talking about what Roberts actually said. Where you then talking about some other thing that had nothing to do with my comment you quoted?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Billy the Kid said:
Well I'm not paying the private sector from my pocket. Nor can the private sector tax me for bull**** programs and redudant govt agencies.
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Billy the Kid said:
Of course they charge me for services I choose to purchase. The private sector, IMO, is heads above the govt.
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Huh? Wha...?

That is some fancy dancing....please....explain.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

Prof. Peabody said:


So should Obama lose the election for lying?
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So you are claiming the middle class is uninsured?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Thunder said:
the penalty is in the form of a fee....but SCOTUS chose to call it a tax.

that's their choice.
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Nooooo. The SCOTUS ruled it was a tax, and upheld it as such - and only as such. Read the majority decision.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Question: if you are self-employed, how does ACA help you pay for health insurance?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Thunder said:
Question: if you are self-employed, how does ACA help you pay for health insurance?
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How do you mean? If it is like Mass, depending on your income you can receive discounts.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Kandahar said:
Political salesmanship should have no bearing on the actual constitutional issues. And today, fortunately, that philosophy seems to have won the day.
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I agree with you that should be the case in a perfect world. But that ignores the state of American political culture. There can be no peace between us. The political culture makes that impossible. Your side won a great victory today. But American politcal culture now requires that the well be so poisoned that your victory becomes pyrrhic. Neither one of us made these rules. But we can't change the rules. This death spiral can't be prevented.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Thunder said:
Question: if you are self-employed, how does ACA help you pay for health insurance?
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If your income is less than 400% of the federal poverty line, you will receive subsidies to help you purchase it. States will set up health insurance exchanges to help you shop around for the best price (and more importantly, foster competition among health insurance companies). Additionally, health insurers will be required to spend at least 80-85% of revenue on health care...if the insurer spend less, all customers will be reimbursed for the difference.

And an underappreciated aspect of the law: It chips away at the link between employers and health insurance by taxing "Cadillac plans." It's not enough to completely break the link, but it at least opens the door to future congresses expanding upon this. This will be very good for self-employed people, students, and anyone else who doesn't get insurance through their employer.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Thunder said:
the penalty is in the form of a fee....but SCOTUS chose to call it a tax.

that's their choice.
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And Obama lied when he said that the Mandate wasn't a tax. He lied when he said he hadn't increased taxes.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

Redress said:
I was talking about what Roberts actually said. Where you then talking about some other thing that had nothing to do with my comment you quoted?
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I didn't quote a comment. I will now though, as a result of your impetuosity:


“The question is not whether that is the most natural interpretation of the mandate, but only whether it is a ‘fairly possible’ one . . . . As we have explained, ‘every reasonable construction must be resorted to, in order to save a statute from unconstitutionality.’ . . . . The Government asks us to interpret the mandate as imposing a tax, if it would otherwise violate the Constitution. Granting the Act the full measure of deference owed to federal statutes, it can be so read, for the reasons set forth below . . . .
“The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax. Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.”

Health care decision: Key quotes from the ruling - Tim Grieve - POLITICO.com

edit: you said "my quote" and I read "a quote." Regardless, the quote provided proves your lack of understanding.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Just heard on the radio that the Romney campaign has received $1.5 million in contributions today.

Think it has anything to do with the SCOTUS announcement on Obamacare?
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

Redress said:
So you are claiming the middle class is uninsured?
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This is a tax on everyone, not just the uninsured.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Albert Di Salvo said:
And Obama lied when he said that the Mandate wasn't a tax. He lied when he said he hadn't increased taxes.
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Obama didn't call it a tax. SCOTUS chose to call it a tax today, which was not Obama's decision.

you hold Obama responsible for SCOTUS' decision today?

its not really a tax, as taxes are not punitive.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

iguanaman said:
Or could he have heard the Conservatives call to not legislate from the bench? We'll never know, sigh.
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America has become a Kingdom of Lies. The actual truth no longer matters. The political culture demands that your side pay a price for its victory. The contention that Roberts was intimidated is useful according to the terms of American political culture. Neither of us made these rules, but we can't deny that the political culture now demands that any ammunition available be used to obtain partisn advantage. Both Democrats and Republicans do it.
 
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