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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Masada said:
I swear, Obama is worse than Nixon.
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Nixon was a saint compared to our last few Presidents. And he tried to institute nationalize heathcare!
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Masada said:
what an outright lie.
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Nope, it's a fact. That's why you didn't try to argue against it, you just threw a bunch of mud on the wall.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Ikari said:
Nixon was a saint compared to our last few Presidents. And he tried to institute nationalize heathcare!
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this is a dirty little secret Conservatives LOVE to ignore.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Hatuey said:
Well - at least you're honest enough to admit that much. Hey, no hard feelings. We all have the best interests for this country even if we don't agree on which way to go. I'm sure in 4 years I'll be in your shoes wishing Democrats put forward somebody I like.
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No hard feelings? The SCOTUS just made a ruling that is going to force me to give up my US Citizenship and you say "No hard feelings?" Sorry, that doesn't work. Nor do I believe that the vast majority of people living in this nation have the country's best interests at heart. By the time this year's election comes around it won't make any difference for me.

Hatuey said:
Why does it bother you to help your fellow Americans so much?
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How about because: 1. THEY DON'T DESERVE IT. and 2. It requires me to reduce my own budget to do so.

Hatuey said:
Well then - see you at the gallows, my treason endorsing friend. :2wave:
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Better DEAD than RED.

Wiggen said:
Hope they provide you with detailed instructions.
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I was actually able to find this..... Site Overview | Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship: A Web Guide It's really more aimed at people who are doing it for tax purposes, but the information seems to be worthwhile either way.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

ARealConservative said:
but Hatueys side one. that is all he sees.
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Yeah, they "won". By winning they mean that they found a way to take more of our money and give it away to corporations which support the government.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

upsideguy said:
I think you are grossly overestimating America's appetite for this issue to continue. The Cons managed to freeze the issue and convince people that perhaps Congress overstepped its bounds in passing this. They lost that one. Now that it has been sanctioned by the Supreme Court most Americans will wish to move on. Clinging to an old issue when there are so many ahead of us is likely to backfire. The passion of protest on this will wane.

Moreover, Romney, as the Cons nominee, is the least positioned politician in America to present challenge to this as he endorsed the concept both in MA and nationally. He even publicly endorsed the mandate as ACA was being debated. Romney's best shot to be POTUS is with a faltering economy with him positioned as guy with the business experience that understands this and can fix it. Virtually every other issue that he spends time on is that much less time he has promoting his strength. This simply is not a winning issue for the Romney campaign.

Sorry J-Mac. The Cons gave it a good shot. They came up short. I know its very difficult for Cons to look ahead, but its time to do so. Wallowing in the past, on this one, is also not a winning issue.
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I think this matter will fester like an open wound because people will perceive their health care costs increasing and health care quality decreasing. They will attribute this phenomena to Obamacare because it will be in effect. That's the way Americans think. They draw the simplest conclusions possible.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Ikari said:
Nixon was a saint compared to our last few Presidents. And he tried to institute nationalize heathcare!
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Speaking of Nixon the EPA also won in the SCOTUS this week
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

ttwtt78640 said:
WRONG. Laws have changed a lot over time precisely because they were unpopular. It is constitutional to tax everyone at 99% but not popular. When the sheeple see the REAL cost of gov't medical care control, they will change it. Congress made this mess and they will be held accountable too clean it up. ;-)
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Yes yes we know, we're all sheeple and you are the guys who see. Too bad they didn't have guys like you and Ikari to argue against this law. I'm sure you would have made quite the impression.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Hatuey said:
Are there any liberals who would like to do a victory dance with me? !!
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What exactly is it you are thinking you won?

Just curious.

It is apparent to me this has very little to do with healthcare but much more to do with government expansion.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Ive already heard it said that Roberts sided with liberals on this or on the side of big government. I disagree. I think Roberts knew this either could not or should not be struck down as a legal matter and needed to be resolved as a political issue.

The question is, in several parts, will conservatives or liberals be galvanized by this and which way will moderates fall? Especially likely voters. I truly dont know, but I think we will know in less than a month.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Thunder said:
mere hyperbole.
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Oh, so single payer isn't a crown jewel of socialism? Hmmmm.....what was all that Marx wrote about then? I'm pretty sure he called in centralized or nationalized healthcare. And I'm also pretty sure he wrote extensively that controlling health care was the most effective way to redistribute wealth.

But call it hyperbole. You're just proving how ignorant you are.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

winston53660 said:
I'm looking at a heart transplat in my future. So I was really eye balling spending caps. A 2.2 million dollar cap can be eaten up pretty quickly in that situation.
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In your particular situation absolutely. I used to sell a product with a 5/7 mil. cap option. There are still a few "no cap" policies out there but they aren't cheap. I understand why caps exist as a former agent but don't like them, I would have been more satisfied with other cost controls than that. Usually though caps are generous, of course for extreme health issues they aren't sufficient.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

winston53660 said:
Speaking of Nixon the EPA also won in the SCOTUS this week
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Quite honestly, look at Nixon's presidency and compare it to Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan, etc. What did Nixon do? He lied about having knowledge of crime. Man, if that's all those other guys would have done we'd be in a lot better spot.

Shows how much we no longer hold to proper policing of the politicians and demanding accountability for actions.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Ikari said:
I believe this to be a foolish statement of the highest caliber. Ends the United States? It will take more than this to end the United States.
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What more do you think it will take? The right to private property is intimately intertwined with liberty. The supreme court decision has eliminated our right to private property. The Constitution was a limit to the federal government's power. This supreme court decision ends limits to federal power. This effectively ends the Constitution.

But this highlights one of the serious problems we are facing. This give away to the insurance companies is just a long line of government handouts to corporations, nothing new here.
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Except that you are wrong. This ends private insurance. It is not a handout to corporations. It ends them and transfers all power to the federal government.

But it does show the inability we seemingly have in having an intelligent debate. It has to devolve into "this ends America" and blah blah blah whatever other retarded arguments and emotional deflections which prevent us from intelligently and rationally discussing the issue.
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I wish that it were not so. It may take a while for the life to leave the body but this ends the US. There is no more doubt about the outcome. This precedent cannot be undone without a revolution to sweep it away, can it?

I think perhaps there does need to be a revolution, but maybe it should be to cast all the idiots into the ocean. Which would include the vast majority of DC. Hope we don't raise the water level too much.
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I regret that a revolution seems far more likely. This is not a good thing. This is a disaster.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Masada said:
Oh, so single payer isn't a crown jewel of socialism?....
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you called it "the crown jewel", not "a crown jewel".

sure, national healthcare is a big part of a Socialist society. But its not THE beacon of Socialism.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

OpportunityCost said:
Temporary waivers that can be issued over and over. Which is kind of the point. Taxation should be allowed to be "waived" even temporarily. Using waivers as a device to shore up political support or as political favors is my contention. You cant shield one set of people and not the rest. I think this or the religious objections regarding abortion etc will be the next portion of this law before SCOTUS.
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There is absolutely no evidence of bias in the issuance of waivers. The purpose of the waivers was to give companies a little more time to prepare for the change, because some are more affected than others and need to do more work.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Misterveritis said:
Except that you are wrong. This ends private insurance. It is not a handout to corporations. It ends them and transfers all power to the federal government.
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BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahha
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

j-mac said:
The Declaration of Independence says right in it "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,..."
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Wait - wait - wait - you want to become an enemy of the state? Please try it. We all know how well that worked out for the South.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

AdamT said:
There is absolutely no evidence of bias in the issuance of waivers. The purpose of the waivers was to give companies a little more time to prepare for the change, because some are more affected than others and need to do more work.
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Yeah, some are more equal than others....:roll: Do you really type that with a straight face?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

ARealConservative said:
you called on liberals to celebrate. I'm pointing out the individual mandate is also hated by many liberals and many don't feel like celebrating
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The mandate is the core of the health insurance reform. Nobody opposes it who also support healthcare.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Hatuey said:
Wait - wait - wait - you want to become an enemy of the state? Please try it.
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No, just an enemy of the statist.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

AdamT said:
There is absolutely no evidence of bias in the issuance of waivers. The purpose of the waivers was to give companies a little more time to prepare for the change, because some are more affected than others and need to do more work.
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No sir.

Over Half of All Obamacare Waivers Given to Union Members | The Weekly Standard
In what is fast becoming a weekly event, the Obama administration granted 200 more companies waivers from the Democrats' sweeping health care law in the Friday night news dump. That brings the number of companies receiving waivers to 1,372. (You can get a full list of the companies exempted here.)

Not surprisingly, it helps to be a Democratic ally when seeking a waiver. The Republican Policy Committee reports that over half of the workers that have been exempted so far belong to unions:


The plans newly approved for waivers cover more than 160,000 people, bringing to nearly 3.1 million the number of individuals in plans exempted from the health law’s requirements. Of the participants receiving waivers, more than half – over 1.55 million – are in union plans, raising questions of why such a disproportionate share of union members are receiving waivers from the law’s requirements. The percentage of participants receiving waivers that come from unions also continues to rise – the number was 48% in April, and 45% in March.

Unions already received a generous concession in the health care bill. Their generous "cadilac" insurance plans were exempted from being taxed until 2018, adding about $120 billion to the bill’s cost over ten years. For more on how the administration has helped unions, see my story in THE WEEKLY STANDARD from a few weeks ago.
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That dog will not hunt. Being in a Union seems to be a pass to exemption.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

winston53660 said:
Speaking of Nixon the EPA also won in the SCOTUS this week
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DC Circuit, but still a big win. Between that, AZ, and Obamacare, rehubs have got some blood in their shorts this week. :lol:
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

j-mac said:
No, just an enemy of the statist.
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Sure - you're backing down now. Please tell me what you plan on doing? Declare war on the United States? Fight the US military? It all smacks of treason. You gonna become a traitor to this country j-mac?
 
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