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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld


Stocks were down before the ruling. They've been rising since the initial reaction. Dow is down only 50 points from where it was before the announcement. ;)
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

I carry and always have carried insurance. Your anecdotal example aside, there are a whole lot of people today that DONT carry insurance...many by choice, many because they feel they cant afford it (I disagree with most of them BTW...get rid of your cell phone, cable, video games, budget appropriately, and you likely CAN afford insurance. And SHOULD). Regardless...they are now MANDATED to do so.

I'm not all that upset about this, primarily because I am a realist. I saw this coming a long time ago. Reality is, this is just a beginning. Id bet good money that by 2016 we will see universal healthcare implemented, as well as the elimination of medicare, medicaid, and the beginning of the shut-down of veterans administration hospitals, military hospitals, etc. Ive said from the beginning that it isnt about health care reform, its about where the reform is. People are gleeful about trusting the federal government...an entity that cant so much as pass a budget or agree on simple deficit reductions and that is 16 trillion in debt and climbing...with the management of 'healthcare'. Brilliant.

Why would the veterans administration hospitals and military hospitals be shut down over this? Just curious.
 
Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

Let's see how it goes. If it fails, stick it to them.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Not lesser human beings, per se. Just empty headed assholes, mostly.

But my opinion of liberals isn't much different. I'm referring to the outer fringes of each ideology, of course. The people in the moderate middle, both liberals and conservatives, appear to have MUCH grey matter in their skulls. They would be much harder to clean up after. But we don't see their head's exploding so no worries mate.

Your post seems contradictory. All people are fine. That doesn't change because of their ideology.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

If they opt out of the Medicaid expansion they wil be refusing the additional money too. When is the last time you saw States turn down Fed money?


Exactly.

The main problem with the Affordable Care Act is one of information and understanding.

People who are 'educated' by Fox News, Glenn Becky, and the like, don't have a clue what is in the ACA.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Yep. Social Darwinism. Very simple and incredibly effective.

I'm partial to both blue and green for most of my wardrobe.
You skipped the math problem......I'll wait.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

They shoot tiggers in Iran.

I'd rather be dead than a citizen of this country right now.

It always about the money with Conservatives. Why are you all so CHEAP?

iguana, I've got probably a $70 grocery bill coming up this afternoon, you want to pay that for me? How about my $875 rent check I have to write tomorrow? The $250 for my eye doctor appointment on July 6th?

You laugh, but that's exactly how many of us see this and the vast majority of the social spending this nation does. It's handouts. Nothing more. Handouts to people who made their own beds and now don't want to lay in them. Instead they want to reach into MY pocket for a night at the Comfort Inn (only because we won't pay for the Ritz Carlton - YET).
 
Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

IN your opinion what negative effect will it have on small bus-sines?

First off, it's not an opinion. I personally work with over 400 companies, that range in size from 3 employees to 1000. This law mandates that a business with more than 50 employees MUST provide health insurance.

Problem is, most 50 man companies cannot afford health insurance for their employees. THey simply dont have the money to fund such a program. Now, because this mandate was upheld, that company faces some major decisions. 1. Provide health insurance. 2. Go out of business 3. Lay off employees to fall below the 50 employee threshhold. 4. Break up company into 2 seperate companies.

These are all solutions that come from the actual business owners. It's not that they don't "want" to offer benefits, they simply cannot afford it. So, this hurts their growth potential, hiring capabilities, or any possibility of increasing wages. They simply can't do it all. They cant afford to invest where they want, increase wages for existing employees, grow and hire new employees, and provide health insurance for everyone all at the same time. They cant afford to do it all.

It's a job killer, and at a time when our economy needs businesses to grow and expand, this mandate stifles any chance of that in literally millions of companies.

Do the math. In a company with 60 employees. The average insurance premium is approximately $500 per person, per month. That comes out to an additional $360,000 per year that that company must now pay in insurance premiums. That is a tremendous burden on a company with only 60 employees. That's $360,000 that could go to hiring new people, expanding their company, increasing wages, etc. But it's now mandated that they spend that $360,000 on health insurance. Go talk to any company with 60 employees. Maybe 5% of them end their fiscal year with $360,000 just left over.

This isn't some kind of opinion. This is reality. I work with these companies. Owners are of a mixed bag politically. Some liberals, some not. But they all know the reality. They simply don't have that $360,000 left over each year to pay insurance premiums. It's a simple matter of math, not politics.

So, what are their solutions???? Where is their freedom to run a successful business now?
 
Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

There is no "there, there" about it.
It is a horrible day for the Country.

Yep ... unless you're an American who couldn't afford health insurance, or had a preexisting condition, or got cancelled out because they got sick, or exceeded a lifetime limit, or wanted to stay on her parents' policy longer, or wanted more choice than what her employer offered, or worked for herself....
 
Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

This is a great day for the United States


In other news, Clarence Thomas is said to be moving into a hotel for the time being.


:lol:
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

I just learned that in 2014 if I don't buy insurance I have to pay a $90.00 fine BUT if I get sick insurance companies have to let me sign up for full coverage. WOW, works for ME! What a great deal, I LOVE IT! I am now for obamacare, God bless Obama and God help America.

Yeah you just better hope you don't, I don't know, get into a car accident, collapse, anything that meant you couldn't "Just get insurance" before you got to the hospital.

Have fun paying out of pocket.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

You skipped the math problem......I'll wait.

--- Post deleted due to poster's addition to the Ignore List ---
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Or you can grow up and deal with it ... like I said.

Please don't talk about me personally. Our discussion won't be advanced by personalizing it.

This decision can be used for political advantage with whites in exactly the same way that the president's recent decision on DREAMERS was used with regard to Latinos. White people will generally find the quality of their health care decreasing. White seniors will be told that the president took $500 billion from their Medicare and gave it instead to the beneficiaries of Obamacare.

Grievances will be whipped up and exploited just like the grievances of African Americans are exploited by Jesse Jackson and his ilk.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

How can you people not get the difference between these two things? If I don't get a deduction I still don't have to pay anything unless I was already obligated to do so. The distinction is huge and the ramifications are huge because you can't make a deduction a deterrent, only a motivator. A motivator is limited by what you're willing to give to motivate people. A deterrent (IE, the tax) is only limited by the willingness of people to comply. If you want people to buy electric cars but someone REALLY doesn't want one, what do you think is more devastating to them? Making it so people who don't buy it DON'T receive $10,000 or requiring people to PAY $10,000 out of their pockets for not purchasing it?

Seriously, no distinction seen there AT ALL? Eh Roberts? No? Maybe I'm just crazy but that seems like a huge distinction to me.

Yep. It is a mess. Prehaps the 1040 will have an ObamaCare check box, on page 12, that IF NOT CHECKED adds $400 to your tax owed. How IRS will know who is/is not insured is beyond me. If you were insured, for PART of the year, does that count as insured or uninsured?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Most of the elderly are white because they were born at a time when America was a white country. Their Medicare benefits are being cut by $500 billion and the money is being transferred to the beneficiaries of Obamacare.

You are spouting false GOP talking points again.
There are no cuts in Medicare benefits from the HC law and that 500 billion comes from PROVIDERS not beneficiaries. The HC bill actually STRENGTHENS Medicare, perhaps that is what you don't like.

The savings actually are wrung from health-care providers, not Medicare beneficiaries. These spending reductions presumably would be a good thing, since virtually everyone agrees that Medicare spending is out of control. In the House Republican budget, lawmakers repealed the Obama health care law but retained all but $10 billion of the nearly $500 billion in Medicare savings, suggesting the actual policies enacted to achieve these spending reductions were not that objectionable to GOP lawmakers.

The Obama health care law also raised Medicare payroll taxes by $113 billion over 10 years, further strengthening the program’s financial condition, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Since about half of the $500 billion stems from reduced outlays for Medicare hospitalization expenses, the payroll taxes and those reductions would add about $358 billion to Medicare trust fund balances.

Fact Checking the GOP debate: $500 billion in cuts to Medicare? - The Washington Post
 
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Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

Actually, the SCOTUS has just decided that mr. Obama did not overstep his authority. And it is very easy to argue that the affordable healthcare is actually for the general welfare of the country IMHO. All of the above just sounds like sour grapes of bad loosers.

Spoken like a true outsider who won't have to pay for it.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

There are no cuts in Medicare benefits from the HC law and that 500 billion comes from PROVIDERS not beneficiaries.
You are spouting false GOP talking points again.



Fact Checking the GOP debate: $500 billion in cuts to Medicare? - The Washington Post

Health care providers will pass the cut along to white seniors. This is a disaster for them. Their healthcare is being transferred to the beneficiaries of Obamacare.
 
Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

Yep ... unless you're an American who couldn't afford health insurance, or had a preexisting condition, or got cancelled out because they got sick, or exceeded a lifetime limit, or wanted to stay on her parents' policy longer, or wanted more choice than what her employer offered, or worked for herself....
Yep! There it is alright.

I am talking about what is not good for the Country as a whole, and you counter with how greedy individuals who want others to foot the bill for them would think about it.
Figures. :doh
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Yeah you just better hope you don't, I don't know, get into a car accident, collapse, anything that meant you couldn't "Just get insurance" before you got to the hospital.

Have fun paying out of pocket.

That is a fair point and I wonder just how that would work. Would you be able to get instant insurance at the time of an accident? I bet nobody knows and this is just another page to be added to the pickup load of pages already in this bill.
 
Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

Please copy and paste this message or a similar one to your FEDERAL representatives: Dear --insert representatives name here-- , Now that the Supreme Court has upheld President Obama's unfunded mandate forcing individuals to purchase a product it is time to get rid of those justices as well as to begin impeachment proceedings against Mr. Obama. Nowhere in our Constitution is there authority for the Federal Government to force citizens to purchase a product or service. Our Constitution provides a list of the powers of the Congress in Article One, Section Eight to wit: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" The "general Welfare" clause was not and does not indicate that individual persons should be a part of a forced purchase of any kind. According to today's news, the mandate has been upheld as a tax and as such that tax does not provide for common defense, pay debts, nor promote the general welfare of the nation. Mr. Obama has overstepped his authority and defied the Congress many times with executive orders and has, through possibly unethical contacts and back-room deals, forced this unwarranted and intrusive "affordable" health care law against the will of the people. The Congress is supposed to be representative of its constituents, NOT of the insurance companies or other corporations. I urge you to create legislation to repeal this unfunded mandate and to prevent any such law from ever being introduced in the future. Thank you,

Sock puppet much Mr. "I lean progressive"? LOL
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Please don't talk about me personally. Our discussion won't be advanced by personalizing it.

This decision can be used for political advantage with whites in exactly the same way that the president's recent decision on DREAMERS was used with regard to Latinos. White people will generally find the quality of their health care decreasing. White seniors will be told that the president took $500 billion from their Medicare and gave it instead to the beneficiaries of Obamacare.

Grievances will be whipped up and exploited just like the grievances of African Americans are exploited by Jesse Jackson and his ilk.

Yeah, treating everyone equally. That is such a bad idea. :roll:

You think he is pandering to minorities, right?
 
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