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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #701
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Wait - wait - wait - you want to become an enemy of the state? Please try it. We all know how well that worked out for the South.
    Better DEAD than RED, Hatuey; and that appears to be the set of options at this point.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    you want to violently overthrow the freely-elected govt. of the USA, because folks who don't have health insurance will be charged $650 a year?
    Thunder, I really hope we do not revolt. Revolutions are violent, rending things. They take on their own lives and most end badly. We are unlikely to have a George Washington again.

    So how do we regain a government with limits to its power short of a revolution that resets the nation? I am eager to hear your ideas on how we can return to our abandoned Constitution with its appropriate limits to power.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    The mandate is the core of the health insurance reform. Nobody opposes it who also support healthcare.
    the vast majority of Americans oppose it

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    What exactly is it you are thinking you won?

    Just curious.

    It is apparent to me this has very little to do with healthcare but much more to do with government expansion.

    Hhmm...when fully implemented, 32 million Americans would disagree with the bolded part of your statement.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    In that one USA 47% pay no FIT. Wait until that becomes 52%. Hmm...
    That's economics...not race.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    No sir.

    Over Half of All Obamacare Waivers Given to Union Members | The Weekly Standard

    That dog will not hunt. Being in a Union seems to be a pass to exemption.
    No mystery there. Unions generally have negotiated health care benefits that have to be renegotiated as a result of the change. Remember, this is just a TEMPORARY waiver — not an exemption.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by treedancer View Post
    Hhmm...when fully implemented, 32 million Americans would disagree with the bolded part of your statement.
    Of course, because they'll be STEALING from the wallets of the productive members of society in order to get that healthcare. So why wouldn't they like it?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by treedancer View Post
    Hhmm...when fully implemented, 32 million Americans would disagree with the bolded part of your statement.
    Seems Obama disagrees with the court, or at least he did in '09...

    STEPHANOPOULOS: …during the campaign. Under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don’t. How is that not a tax?
    OBAMA: Well, hold on a second, George. Here — here’s what’s happening. You and I are both paying $900, on average — our families — in higher premiums because of uncompensated care. Now what I’ve said is that if you can’t afford health insurance, you certainly shouldn’t be punished for that. That’s just piling on. If, on the other hand, we’re giving tax credits, we’ve set up an exchange, you are now part of a big pool, we’ve driven down the costs, we’ve done everything we can and you actually can afford health insurance, but you’ve just decided, you know what, I want to take my chances. And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have to pay for the emergency room care, that’s…
    STEPHANOPOULOS: That may be, but it’s still a tax increase.
    OBAMA: No. That’s not true, George. The — for us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.
    STEPHANOPOULOS: But it may be fair, it may be good public policy…
    OBAMA: No, but — but, George, you — you can’t just make up that language and decide that that’s called a tax increase. Any…
    STEPHANOPOULOS: Here’s the…
    OBAMA: What — what — if I — if I say that right now your premiums are going to be going up by 5 or 8 or 10 percent next year and you say well, that’s not a tax increase; but, on the other hand, if I say that I don’t want to have to pay for you not carrying coverage even after I give you tax credits that make it affordable, then…
    STEPHANOPOULOS: I — I don’t think I’m making it up. Merriam Webster’s Dictionary: Tax — “a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes.”
    OBAMA: George, the fact that you looked up Merriam’s Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you’re stretching a little bit right now. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have gone to the dictionary to check on the definition. I mean what…
    STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, no, but…
    OBAMA: …what you’re saying is…
    STEPHANOPOULOS: I wanted to check for myself. But your critics say it is a tax increase.
    OBAMA: My critics say everything is a tax increase. My critics say that I’m taking over every sector of the economy. You know that. Look, we can have a legitimate debate about whether or not we’re going to have an individual mandate or not, but…
    STEPHANOPOULOS: But you reject that it’s a tax increase?
    OBAMA: I absolutely reject that notion.

    Obama: Mandate is Not a Tax - ABC News

    I guess he was just lying then...
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    It's quite clear that Obamacare will not just be thrown away and forgot about. If somehow republicans do manage to get rid of it, they will HAVE to present an alternative to it themselves, otherwise they will alienate the voters.

    Sadly, while there are plenty of conservative alternatives I like, Romney is probably the last guy I'd expect to understand them.
    Captain Courtesy had a very good plan a while back, hope he decides to repost it here. I don't mind a government alternative provided that it is voluntary and seperate from the tax base and followed all the rules of private insurance such as must reinvest, remain solvent, collect premiums, retain cash on hand, and only function off of premium/reinvestment dollars. In other words, insurance for those who have problems in the private market.

    That said, the real problems haven't been addressed in over a century:
    1) Medical school admission is set at a maximum on the federal level, remove the ceiling and allow more physicians who qualify into the market.
    2) Tort reform. Add a panel of medical professionals to judge the merits of malpractice cases as a barrier to fivolous med. lawsuits. Merited cases shall not be in jeopardy
    3) Relax burdensome regulations for care but retain those that benefit the general consumer such as health and safety standards.
    4) Once prices naturalize and become more tenable, relax the emergency mandate and allow for partial collection from "free riders". In a true emergency collection would not be an option but if someone abuses the ER for free care as determined by an independent board they may be liable for at least a portion of care.
    5) Allow for a federal income tax break on maintaining private insurance, or for group plans allow a break for the portion paid out from the employee. Encourage insurance usage rather than forcing it.
    6) Decentralize where possible.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    The mandate is the core of the health insurance reform. Nobody opposes it who also support healthcare.

    Incorrect. I support insurance reform and oppose the mandate.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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