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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #641
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, My thoughts very preliminarily are really several fold here.

    1. I think that Roberts was wrong to side with the liberal wing of the court here, largely on the unequal taxation that this will now enshrine that the government has the right to do. So, the court today just wiped out a piece of the constitution in that regard.

    2. The ruling has energized those who are and have been against this law from the begining, the group we saw in 2010 sweep elections. Romney, if his team is smart enough to take advantage of this will win November in a landslide on the anger of the 60% of Americans against this law.

    3. Even though Obama said to George Snufolupogus in 2009 that 'no way was this a tax' and then repeated that over, and over, until they got in front of the court, now it is a tax. The largest tax on the middle class in history! Good job libs...$4000. to every middle class family estimated by the CBO.

    4. The court, and Obama have just dropped the hammer on small business, in this time of anemic growth at best is plain stupid! Many now will drop Health Insurance offered to employees, and take the tax because it will be cheaper to do so. Or, they will go out of business all together under the weight of cost.


    This was a fraud from the beginning, and remains a lie to this day that Obama has given us...I am saddened, but at the same time hopeful that America will wake up and stop the progressive nightmare.
    I think you are grossly overestimating America's appetite for this issue to continue. The Cons managed to freeze the issue and convince people that perhaps Congress overstepped its bounds in passing this. They lost that one. Now that it has been sanctioned by the Supreme Court most Americans will wish to move on. Clinging to an old issue when there are so many ahead of us is likely to backfire. The passion of protest on this will wane.

    Moreover, Romney, as the Cons nominee, is the least positioned politician in America to present challenge to this as he endorsed the concept both in MA and nationally. He even publicly endorsed the mandate as ACA was being debated. Romney's best shot to be POTUS is with a faltering economy with him positioned as guy with the business experience that understands this and can fix it. Virtually every other issue that he spends time on is that much less time he has promoting his strength. This simply is not a winning issue for the Romney campaign.

    Sorry J-Mac. The Cons gave it a good shot. They came up short. I know its very difficult for Cons to look ahead, but its time to do so. Wallowing in the past, on this one, is also not a winning issue.

  2. #642
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    No it's not. It definitely is not my country and that's why I just sent an email to the offices of both Massachusetts Senators asking how one goes about renouncing one's US Citizenship.
    Hope they provide you with detailed instructions.
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  3. #643
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    If that is to have any effect at all then the "tax penalty" has to be greater than the cost of compliance.
    the penalty was low for now because it needs to be popular.

    Same with a tax on labor. When the government first sought this new power, they made sure people understood it was to hammer those rich greedy bastards. The concept of the every day working man having his money taken before he was even payed was never dreamed of initially, and never would of seen the light of day

  4. #644
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Please you better check who's playing the race card here.
    Identity politics are perfectly legitimate. The race card doesn't matter. The country is breaking down along racial lines politically.

  5. #645
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Granted that I havent read through the entire strata of responses, has anyone referenced all those waivers? They are waivers against a tax yes? You cant apply a tax selectively or grant waivers selectively. Are those waivers constitutional? If they are not, what then? There are literally millions of people affected by those waivers as well.

    Then we move onto the argument of taxing whatever the heck you want, from cell phones (you need them to call for emergency care, as an argument) to green policies (has to have a certain MPG) or lulz here but how about taxing for NOT having a gun for self protection. All of those could be applied from this ruling. This didnt stop the problems, its just the beginning of the mess we are going to have to sort out, this ruling was probably the largest since Wickard---which was somewhat derailed by this ruling in an odd way by sidestepping into the tax area and not ruling on the limitation of the commerce clause.
    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    the waivers are given to corporations (shocking, I know). Individuals who have taxes levied against them do not have an ability to get a waiver
    The waivers given were to corporations that needed more time in order to get a new insurance policy for their employees that fit all of the criteria listed out in the healthcare bill. They were temporary waivers. They are going to have to comply just as people are going to have to comply. Unless there are other waivers that I am unaware of.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Who do you think pays for it when an uninsured person goes to the emergency room and doesn't pay the bill?

    In a perfect world everyone would pay for themselves, and they could all afford it happily, and it would rain champagne. It's not a perfect world. We did manage to pass a bill that does insure a large group of those that didn't previously had it which will allow many people to actually practice preventative medicine and such, which will save some money.
    That's a nice theory. It's just not reality.

    What world are you living in? Save who some money? Have you paid any attention whatsoever to insurance premiums SINCE Obamacare was passed? They have risen, on average, of 18% PER YEAR. That's faster than it was before they passed Obamacare....

    Who's saving any money? My health insurance went up 20% this year, WITHOUT A SINGLE CLAIM AGAINST IT. And people with pre-existing conditions are already accepted under Obamacare. Well, minors are right now, and adults will be completely phased in by 2014. But what are insurance companies doing????? Raising premiums faster than they ever have before.

    Who's saving money???? What freakin planet do you live on????

    The problem with the left, is they have great intentions, but they blatantly ignore the real consequences of their actions. We passed obamacare, and liberals said it would "lower insurance premiums". REally? Then why are the insurance companies raising premiums by a clip of 18% annually on average? Obamacare doesn't prevent them from doing it obviously. And if it does, how long before private insurance companies go out of business? Or need a government bailout like AIG, or Chevy?

    You people are so blind. THis is nothing more than paving a superhighway to single payer health care. That's what the left wants, because they think it works. Go take your ass to Canada and see if you like it better there than here. Here, you don't wait 6 months for a hip replacement. There you do. Here, my doctor decides my course of treatment. THere, a government exchange does. You liberals want the government deciding medical procedures your insurance will cover, and which ones are off limits? Keep that in mind for when the pendulum swings back to Conservative Tea party types. If the government can force you to buy insurance, they can also force you to carry a baby against your will.

    Liberals never contemplate the alternatives. They are fools, rushing towards more and more dependency.

    You say it's not a perfect world. That's correct. It's not. But your example of a perfect world was a world where everyone would pay for themselves. You think Obamacare gets us closer to "everyone paying for themselves"????? Geeez.....Obamacare gets us to the doorstep of the government taking over healthcare alltogether. Single Payer. That eliminates YOUR FREEDOM to decide your own treatment. It eliminates YOUR FREEDOM to choose your own doctor. It eliminates YOUR FREEDOM to choose a certain cancer drug if the government refuses to pay for it ( like they do in England and Canada). That's right, the best cancer medicines, which are covered by private health insurance here in America, are rejected in England and Canada, and other countries as well. You ready for that? You're gonna get your aweful wish. Fools.

  7. #647
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    If that is to have any effect at all then the "tax penalty" has to be greater than the cost of compliance.
    Actually, it would have to be about equal to the cost of compliance. Either you purchase insurance or the cost will be billed to you without any additional benefits of insurance, people will then purchase insurance instead.

  8. #648
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Good to know you only came to complain about "race bomb" after I came in - and not you know - the last 20 pages where Albert Di Salvo has been making this into a race issue.

    Your hypocrisy gets thicker every day and I love to expose it.
    I'm with Al Sharpton on this. Identity politics is a tenet of leftist doctrine. I'm simply playing by the rules. Race is a perfectly legitimate organizing principle politically. That's why about 90% of African Americans vote monolithically. That's completely legitimate, and the same organizing principle is available to all American identity groups.

  9. #649
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I think you are grossly overestimating America's appetite for this issue to continue.
    I think we should make this issue continue. This version of health care is nothing of the sort. It's government forced insurance buying, the insurance companies are going to make out like bandits here; all sponsored through government force. But there is an issue with our health care. Americans pay more for and have less access to healthcare than other industrialized nations. There is a way to use government to properly address that. But it will require an intelligent conversation, we can't get side tracked into partisan bickering like this thread has become. If the liberals and the conservatives could just disengage their mouths long enough to THINK about the problem, we may be able to actually move in a productive direction.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Go back and see who the first person was to bring up race in this thread. It wasn't a liberal.
    There is nothing wrong with using race for political puroposes. The left does it all the time. What goes around comes around.

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