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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

You can call it zippity do da for all I care. What it is is a tax penalty. You only pay the penalty if you fail to comply with the law. It's permissible under the constitution because tax penalties are within Congress' taxing power.

Perhaps you should read the transcript as well, you're tripping all over yourself. Again, it was upheld narrowly under congress' power to tax, so we already knew that. The issue at hand was that democrats really, really don't want it being called a tax.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

How's that for semantics? Whether you call it a tx or a penalty, it does exactly the same thing. No one has ever tried to hide what it does.

then why did Obama make sure to say this wasn't a tax?... why was he being deceitful?



I wonder if anyone has a summary of all the tax increases contained in Obamacare...
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Haha. I marched in the local Gay Pride Parade on June 3rd in support of LGBTQ people. I am hardly a pitchfork type. What I am is someone who obeys the rules of the political culture in order to achieve political advantage. That's as American as apple pie.
Um..no...the reference was to your earlier comment about riling up the populace, but it isn't happening with the combo racism/agism angle....and I doubt anyone believes the whole " I love gays" jive.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

Which 2/3? and What of the lower class?

Lower class up to 200 % poverty level: 31 %

Poverty level for single person: 11,170
Poverty for family of 4: 23,050
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

How's that for semantics? Whether you call it a tx or a penalty, it does exactly the same thing. No one has ever tried to hide what it does.

And yet it wasn't upheld under the Congress' right to impose a penalty....was it?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

What's kind of sad is that you don't know the difference between a tax credit and a deduction! :rofll:

If you don't owe any tax and you have a CREDIT, the treasury cuts you a check in the amount of the credit.

What's sad is that you don't see the problem with that, and that you've failed to understand what has been posted - that you have to pay for the policy first, BEFORE (as much as a year in advance) you get the credit. And then, if you happen to get a small raise in income during that waiting year where your family is failing to make their rental payments - you don't get that credit (or it is reduced).
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

Lower class up to 200 % poverty level: 31 %

Poverty level for single person: 11,170
Poverty for family of 4: 23,050

And they buy insurance or get the tax.


Obama! Obama! Obama!
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

then why did Obama make sure to say this wasn't a tax?... why was he being deceitful?



I wonder if anyone has a summary of all the tax increases contained in Obamacare...

Here are some....

A new 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services that takes effect for services provided after June 30, 2010.
• Giving small firms tax credits as incentives to provide coverage, starting this year. Employers with 10 or fewer workers and average annual wages of less than $25,000 can receive a credit of up to 35 percent of their health premium costs each year through 2013. The credit is phased out for firms larger than that and disappears completely if a company has more than 25 employees or average annual wages of $50,000 or more. Beginning in 2014, small firms that sign up with one of the health exchanges to be created can receive a credit of up to 50 percent of their costs.
• A requirement that businesses include the value of the health care benefits they provide to employees on W-2s, beginning with W-2s for 2011.
• Elimination, after this year, of a deduction employers now take for providing Medicare Part D prescription drug coverage to their retirees to the extent that the federal government subsidizes the coverage. This will not take effect until 2013.
• Doubling the penalty for nonqualified distributions from health savings accounts, to 20 percent, beginning in 2011.
• A limit on the amount that employees can contribute to health care flexible spending accounts to $2,500 a year. Under the House package of changes, the cap won’t take effect until 2013.
• A ban on using funds from flexible spending accounts, health reimbursement arrangements or health savings accounts for the cost of over-the-counter medications, starting in 2011.
• Imposing a 0.9 percent Medicare surtax on wages of single taxpayers earning more than $200,000 a year and couples earning over $250,000, starting in 2013. In addition, the House’s package of modifications would levy a special 3.8 percent Medicare tax on the unearned income of those taxpayers. The House defines unearned income as interest, dividends, capital gains, annuities, royalties and rents. Tax-exempt interest would not be included, nor would income from retirement accounts.
• A hike in the 7.5 percent floor on itemized deductions for medical expenses to 10 percent, beginning in 2013. But taxpayers age 65 and over are exempt from the cutback through 2016.
• A new 40 percent excise tax, beginning in 2013, on high-cost health plans, defined as those providing coverage in excess of $8,500 for individuals and $23,000 for families. The House’s package of modifications includes higher threshold amounts and an initial effective date of 2018.
• A new tax on individuals who don’t obtain adequate health coverage by 2014. The tax is be phased in over three years, starting at the greater of $95, or 0.5 percent of income, in 2014, and rising to the greater of $750, or 2 percent of income, in 2016. The House passed companion measure would modify this provision so that a person without coverage in 2014 would pay the greater of $95, or 1 percent of income, and in 2016 would pay the greater of $695, or 2.5 percent of income.
• Providing a refundable tax credit, once the individual mandate takes effect in 2014, to help low-income folks purchase coverage. To be eligible, a person’s household income must be between 100 percent and 400 percent of the federal poverty level, generally around $11,000 to $44,000 for singles and $22,000 to $88,000 for families.
• A nondeductible fee charged to businesses with 50 or more employees if the firms fail to offer adequate coverage. The fee will equal $750 times the number of workers in the firm, and is slated to go into effect in 2014. The House’s package of modifications would increase that fee to $2,000 times the number of employees, though it would not count the first 30 workers in that calculation.

Health care plan has hearty list of taxes | NJ.com
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Democrats desperately want peace and acquiesence after their victory. But the political culture in America dictates that there can be no peace.

White seniors must now have it hammered home that their Medicare health care is now going to deteriorate. Their emotions will be whipped into a fury just like the Democrats whipped them into a fury when Bush tried to reform Social Security. That's what America's political culture dictates.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

:2dancing:
LOL....those contradictions were way beyond anything I could produce.

Either you are paying for your private ins....or you are not. Which is it?



:spin: Right. Thanks for trying . . . but fail. But don't let me stop you from :2dancing:.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

And they buy insurance or get the tax.


Obama! Obama! Obama!

Actually, most of them would qualify for Medicaid as I understand it.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Um..no...the reference was to your earlier comment about riling up the populace, but it isn't happening with the combo racism/agism angle....and I doubt anyone believes the whole " I love gays" jive.

You're entitled to your opinion. What you are not entitled to is the peaceful enjoyment of your Supreme Court victory.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

You're entitled to your opinion. What you are not entitled to is the peaceful enjoyment of your Supreme Court victory.

I have been enjoying it in peace actually.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Here are some more taxes...


Employer Mandate Excise Tax (Page 275): If an employer does not pay 72.5 percent of a single employee’s health premium (65 percent of a family employee), the employer must pay an excise tax equal to 8 percent of average wages. Small employers (measured by payroll size) have smaller payroll tax rates of 0 percent (<$500,000), 2 percent ($500,000-$585,000), 4 percent ($585,000-$670,000), and 6 percent ($670,000-$750,000).

Individual Mandate Surtax (Page 296): If an individual fails to obtain qualifying coverage, he must pay an income surtax equal to the lesser of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) or the average premium. MAGI adds back in the foreign earned income exclusion and municipal bond interest.

Medicine Cabinet Tax (Page 324): Non-prescription medications would no longer be able to be purchased from health savings accounts (HSAs), flexible spending accounts (FSAs), or health reimbursement arrangements (HRAs). Insulin excepted.

Cap on FSAs (Page 325): FSAs would face an annual cap of $2500 (currently uncapped).

Increased Additional Tax on Non-Qualified HSA Distributions (Page 326): Non-qualified distributions from HSAs would face an additional tax of 20 percent (current law is 10 percent). This disadvantages HSAs relative to other tax-free accounts (e.g. IRAs, 401(k)s, 529 plans, etc.)

Denial of Tax Deduction for Employer Health Plans Coordinating with Medicare Part D (Page 327): This would further erode private sector participation in delivery of Medicare services.

Surtax on Individuals and Small Businesses (Page 336): Imposes an income surtax of 5.4 percent on MAGI over $500,000 ($1 million married filing jointly). MAGI adds back in the itemized deduction for margin loan interest. This would raise the top marginal tax rate in 2011 from 39.6 percent under current law to 45 percent—a new effective top rate.

Excise Tax on Medical Devices (Page 339): Imposes a new excise tax on medical device manufacturers equal to 2.5 percent of the wholesale price. It excludes retail sales and unspecified medical devices sold to the general public.

Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting (Page 344): Requires that 1099-MISC forms be issued to corporations as well as persons for trade or business payments. Current law limits to just persons for small business compliance complexity reasons. Also expands reporting to exchanges of property.

Delay in Worldwide Allocation of Interest (Page 345): Delays for nine years the worldwide allocation of interest, a corporate tax relief provision from the American Jobs Creation Act

Limitation on Tax Treaty Benefits for Certain Payments (Page 346): Increases taxes on U.S. employers with overseas operations looking to avoid double taxation of earnings.

Codification of the “Economic Substance Doctrine” (Page 349): Empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction or other tax relief merely because the IRS deems that the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business-related.

Application of “More Likely Than Not” Rule (Page 357): Publicly-traded partnerships and corporations with annual gross receipts in excess of $100 million have raised standards on penalties. If there is a tax underpayment by these taxpayers, they must be able to prove that the estimated tax paid would have more likely than not been sufficient to cover final tax liability.

Read more: Americans for Tax Reform : BREAKING: Comprehensive List of Taxes<br> In House Democrat Health Bill
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

You couldn't be more wrong on that first part. I work in the medical residency reporting field. I see the figures from teaching hospitals around the US every single day. We are stacked with J1 visas because we simply do not have the native supply of medical students we used to.

Students are looking ahead at the 12 years of outrageous trial and the money leaving the industry and the everyday possibility of losing everything to common medical malpractice suits. They're saying, no thanks, I'll try something else.

i work at a med school. i see how hard it is to get in and how much it costs. a lot of potentially good doctors don't become doctors because they don't want the crushing debt or because they didn't get in one of the artificially limited number of slots. we have to fix that.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Right. Thanks for trying . . . but fail. But don't let me stop you from
OK....you don't want to talk about your contradictions....I'll let them stand, It was an opportunity for you to clear your contradictions.

That's cool.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

How's that for semantics? Whether you call it a tx or a penalty, it does exactly the same thing. No one has ever tried to hide what it does.

You are entitled to your opinion. What you are not entitled to is peace.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Here are some more taxes...


You know what? The govt couldn't have done better with a gun at our heads.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Cool, and I apologise for ribbing you about it. Just thought it was kinda cute, I'm in that mood, the grandkids just stopped by for a moment.

no worries; i took no offense.

I agree, that does suck. I found a policy that fits my needs and my budget. But then I had a leg up on the discovery process, after teaching I went into nursing, so I knew what to look for in a policy.

yes, that would certainly give you good perspective. i was 23 at the time and picked a plan in the upper middle of the cost range because my job didn't pay well. i learned quickly, and dumped the HMO as soon as the next open enrollment came around.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

You're entitled to your opinion. What you are not entitled to is the peaceful enjoyment of your Supreme Court victory.
I never expected it, however I did expect better than racism/agism arguments against it.

That is just way too fringy to be taken even remotely seriously....but I guess that is the best some have.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

Actually, most of them would qualify for Medicaid as I understand it.

The provision that required expansion of medicaid eligibility was shot down. You misunderstand.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

i work at a med school. i see how hard it is to get in and how much it costs. a lot of potentially good doctors don't become doctors because they don't want the crushing debt or because they didn't get in one of the artificially limited number of slots. we have to fix that.

Yeah, again, I've been seeing those internal figures for a couple decades now. Used to be the students would accept that "crushing debt" because they knew they had a very good chance of paying it back and then some. The high cost of a medical school education hasn't changed. What's changed is the expectation that the students could actually pay it back.
 
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