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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Actually it's only supposed to be used if it reduces the deficit, but continuing on...



    Very little of the ACA was passed via reconciliation. The bulk of the bill (including the individual mandate) was passed normally, with 60 votes in the Senate. Only a few changes were passed via reconciliation, and those few changes did not increase the budget deficit.
    Are you kidding me? The cost of ObamaCare, as allowed by the SCOTUS, without requiring MANDATED increased Medicaid "contributions" by the states will be HUGE, since the states NOW do not have to PAY FOR 1/2 of that amount.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Link please? And I will use the same principle for evaluation as you adopted when I tried to use PJM as a source. I won't accept a leftist or liberal source.
    You can see the roll call vote for yourself:
    H.R. 3590 (111th): Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (On Passage of the Bill) -- GovTrack.us

    The ACA passed the Senate with 60 votes, which contained all of the major provisions such as the individual mandate. A few minor changes were then made via reconciliation after the fact.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Nor will we until 2014. Waiting times certainly will get worse. We have too many specialists and not enough primary care physicians.

    If Massachusetts is any example, your not getting anymore either.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    That may be the technical definition of government assistance.
    Possible.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I was arguing national health care vs what we have NOW -- which is what the article discusses. I'm sure that wait time will increase in 2014 and beyond. That's life. We will have to encourage the training of more doctors and allow physicians assistants to do more, which they are very capable of doing. The AMA, like the ABA, is all about maintaining a monopoly for MDs.
    That indeed was what you were "arguing" but in response to a post claiming that ObamaCare would increase wait times, which is MY POINT. You should simply have said "yep" and given that post a "like".

    Pay more to get less is "life"? That may be "life" in Obama dream land, but this is still the USA. This madness, does not become "life" until 2014, that gives the NEXT president and congress time to "fix" the ObamaCare law or replace it entirely.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-29-12 at 05:49 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yes. The whole point of health insurance is to plan for the worst-case scenario.



    Do you have an individual policy or does your employer cover you? If your employer covers you, your insurance is probably OK. If you have an individual policy, chances are your insurance is less good than you think it is. The thing about insurance is that most people are satisfied with their policies because they don't need them that often. They're satisfied right up until the moment the insurance company tries to screw you out of a $100,000 bill. Fortunately the ACA has eliminated most of the worst abuses.



    Will you be switching over to Medicaid when the provisions take effect? If not, it isn't a "government program." Unless you're referring to the subsidies you'll receive (if your income is less than 400% of the poverty line). But in that case, all the government is doing is cutting you a check. You'll still have private insurance.


    I think you're trying to explain this as you see it, but as I stated before, when the government gets involved in any program, it always costs more and in many cases is a botch up. IMO, it's because the govt has never had to actually produce a product or run a business on a budget.

    They are famous for "sending" out for products and services.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    If Massachusetts is any example, your not getting anymore either.
    Is it really that big a deal to wait a few extra weeks for non-emergency care?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You can see the roll call vote for yourself:
    H.R. 3590 (111th): Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (On Passage of the Bill) -- GovTrack.us

    The ACA passed the Senate with 60 votes, which contained all of the major provisions such as the individual mandate. A few minor changes were then made via reconciliation after the fact.
    Would you please point out the provisions of the legislation that were passed through the Budget Reconciliation process and the provisions that weren't passed through that process? Thanks.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Obama Care hidden costs. As we move toward a Canada health care system, we will experience the pit falls rarly considered.

    Sick health care system made Canadians lose more than $3-billion in economic activity in 2011: Fraser Institute

    June 26, 2012

    So says a study released this morning by the Fraser Institute, which estimated that last year Canada lost $1.08-billion in business-day economic activity due to excessive wait times at hospitals and time gaps between visits to specialists and receipt of treatment.

    Long waits in emergency rooms and forcing Canadians to take time out their work days to visit multiple doctors has a cumulative effect not only on the quality of their care but on the overall productivity of the workforce, says the report.

    “Rationing health care in Canada doesn’t just deprive patients of timely access to necessary medical treatment… it also causes them to lose out on wages, productivity and enjoyment in life while they wait,” he says.

    The study estimates each patient loses about $3,490 each year as a result of having to wait 9.5 weeks between the time they see a specialist and the time they are able to receive care.

    Sick health care system made Canadians lose more than $3-billion in economic activity in 2011: Fraser Institute
    What a disaster for America following in these same footsteps..
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    I think you're trying to explain this as you see it, but as I stated before, when the government gets involved in any program, it always costs more and in many cases is a botch up. IMO, it's because the govt has never had to actually produce a product or run a business on a budget.

    They are famous for "sending" out for products and services.
    Problem is, our private health system is 100% more expensive than government run systems elsewhere. And our 100% socialist health system -- the VA -- is more efficient than our private system.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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