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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1851
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    "In reality, both data and anecdotes show that the American people are already waiting as long or longer than patients living with universal health-care systems."
    The Doctor Will See You??n Three Months - Businessweek
    AdamT you AGAIN prove your yourself simply to be an Obama cheerleader arguing the IMPOSSIBLE. Same health care providers + more patients = shorter wait times? From your own source, that is NOT a true "conclusion" see my snipette from it:

    {There is no systemized collection of data on wait times in the U.S. That makes it difficult to draw comparisons with countries that have national health systems, where wait times are not only tracked but made public. However, a 2005 survey by the Commonwealth Fund of sick adults in six nations found that only 47% of U.S. patients could get a same- or next-day appointment for a medical problem, worse than every other country except Canada.

    The Commonwealth survey did find that U.S. patients had the second-shortest wait times if they wished to see a specialist or have nonemergency surgery, such as a hip replacement or cataract operation (Germany, which has national health care, came infirst on both measures). }

    Oh my! In the U.S. only HALF can get a same or next day APPOINTMENT! Help us please, oh mighty Obama, so that the other HALF of us do not have to wait 2 whole days for that NON-EMERGENCY doctor appointment!

    We KNOW that adding 30 to 45 million people to the SAME number of health care facilities is NOT going to CUT WAIT TIMES, so please AdamT explain to us just how ObamaCare will NOT increase our wait times? Crickets...
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #1852
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Actually it's only supposed to be used if it reduces the deficit, but continuing on...



    Very little of the ACA was passed via reconciliation. The bulk of the bill (including the individual mandate) was passed normally, with 60 votes in the Senate. Only a few changes were passed via reconciliation, and those few changes did not increase the budget deficit.
    Link please? And I will use the same principle for evaluation as you adopted when I tried to use PJM as a source. I won't accept a leftist or liberal source.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Isn't this a worse case scenerio?
    Yes. The whole point of health insurance is to plan for the worst-case scenario.

    I have insurance and have had a few surgeries and had not one bit of trouble with the insurance company. I happen to be very, very satisfied with my health insurance.
    Do you have an individual policy or does your employer cover you? If your employer covers you, your insurance is probably OK. If you have an individual policy, chances are your insurance is less good than you think it is. The thing about insurance is that most people are satisfied with their policies because they don't need them that often. They're satisfied right up until the moment the insurance company tries to screw you out of a $100,000 bill. Fortunately the ACA has eliminated most of the worst abuses.

    But now I think those days are gone. And I realize you're going to tell me that's not going to happen, but in my experience with any govt program, eventually it goes to hell in a handbasket and cost twice as much as it should.
    Will you be switching over to Medicaid when the provisions take effect? If not, it isn't a "government program." Unless you're referring to the subsidies you'll receive (if your income is less than 400% of the poverty line). But in that case, all the government is doing is cutting you a check. You'll still have private insurance.
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  4. #1854
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Flippinfunky View Post
    Not sure whom it is you're talking to, but they dont speak for the majority of people in Canada:

    Canada
    Main article: Health care in Canada
    Health Canada, a federal department, publishes a series of surveys of the health care system in Canada based on Canadians first hand experience of the health care system. The following data are from the latest report.[64]
    Waiting times
    Although life threatening cases are dealt with immediately, some specialist services needed are non-urgent and patients are seen at the next available appointment in their local chosen facility.
    The median wait time in Canada to see a specialist physician is a little over a month with 89.5% waiting less than 3 months.[64]
    The median wait time for non-urgent diagnostic services such as MRI and CAT scans[65] is about two weeks with 86.4% waiting less than 3 months.[64]
    The median wait time for elective surgery is a month with 82.2% waiting less than 3 months.[64]
    Prescription drug costs
    Although Canadians get the services of their physicians and hospitals included, they do have to meet the cost of prescription drugs themselves. Many take out insurance for this but this is not compulsory. Some people do meet some expenses themselves out of pocket.
    34.3% of adults reported having no out of pocket costs for prescription drug costs. 96.2% of adults pay less than 5% of their disposable income on prescription drugs.[64]
    Overall satisfaction rate
    85.2% of Canadians reported that they were "satisfied" or "very satisfied" with the way health care services are provided in their country and an even higher number (89.8%) rated their physician in the same way though slightly lower ratings were awarded to hospitals (79.9% being "satisfied" or "very satisfied").[64]

    You can also find information for several other countires here Socialized medicine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    How many Canadians come to America to get health care? Not too many...how many Americans go to Canada to get health care? Plenty.
    Link [64] to http://healthcoalition.ca/index-eng.pdf "Error 404 - Not Found" Do you have another link to Canada wait times under 3 months.

    try this link it works.

    http://www.fraserinstitute.org/publi...?id=2147484001
    Last edited by Prof. Peabody; 06-29-12 at 05:36 PM.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Nor will we until 2014. Waiting times certainly will get worse. We have too many specialists and not enough primary care physicians.

    There are no primary care physicians because they have all been run out of the profession as they can't even pay their medical school loans with their pathetic pay as "doctors".

  6. #1856
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    A good step toward thinking independently would be to actually learn what's in the law you hate so much. The fact that you thought you would be on the hook for the mandate for health insurance you can't afford, and that you didn't know what a health insurance exchange is, suggests that you are not aware of the main provisions of the law. Therefore it makes me wonder how you could have possibly come to hate it so much when you don't even know what it is. The only possible answer to that question is that you have allowed right-wing pundits to whip you into a frenzy.
    Whats got me whipped up has to do with the backdoor policy now in effect thanks to SCOTUS. I actually support healthcare reform and believe that parts of Obamacare is good. But that does not mean that I am for the mandate or what it does politically.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  7. #1857
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The Commonwealth Fund (a nonpartisan health care policy thinktank) studied the health care systems in seven countries and compared the quality. The seven countries were the US, Canada, UK, Netherlands, Germany, Australia, and New Zealand. They compared them across 11 different variables that measured the quality of their health care systems. On 8 of the 11 variables, the US ranked sixth or seventh among the seven nations...and didn't rank better than fourth on any of them. The US also came in dead last for overall quality. But there is one variable where the US came in first: money spent. The US spends far more per capita ($7,290) on health care than any of the other countries. The runner-up, Canada, spent only $3,895.

    Perhaps this suggests that there is something that we could be learning from these other countries, which spend less and (your anecdote about dissatisfied foreigners notwithstanding) have better quality.

    Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: How the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally, 2010 Update - The Commonwealth Fund
    you refuse to read certain links, yet call the commonwealth fund non partisan.

    bwahahaha.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That only works if your bills are small enough to make it relatively affordable, and if you can't afford health insurance then you certainly can't afford a big bill. What are you going to do if you get hit by a bus tomorrow and spend six months in the hospital? Probably stick the hospital with the bill.
    Nope, I'd do what I could to pay it off. Again the whole idea of personal responsibility seems to escape you even though i've mentioned it several times already.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    If you've been getting good service from the current system, you are in a small minority.
    Or maybe the ones that haven't been are actually in the minority and those with political agenda's have blown it all out of proportion. Much like they did with ciggarettes.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  10. #1860
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    AdamT you AGAIN prove your yourself simply to be an Obama cheerleader arguing the IMPOSSIBLE. Same health care providers + more patients = shorter wait times? From your own source, that is NOT a true "conclusion" see my snipette from it:

    {There is no systemized collection of data on wait times in the U.S. That makes it difficult to draw comparisons with countries that have national health systems, where wait times are not only tracked but made public. However, a 2005 survey by the Commonwealth Fund of sick adults in six nations found that only 47% of U.S. patients could get a same- or next-day appointment for a medical problem, worse than every other country except Canada.

    The Commonwealth survey did find that U.S. patients had the second-shortest wait times if they wished to see a specialist or have nonemergency surgery, such as a hip replacement or cataract operation (Germany, which has national health care, came infirst on both measures). }

    Oh my! In the U.S. only HALF can get a same or next day APPOINTMENT! Help us please, oh mighty Obama, so that the other HALF of us do not have to wait 2 whole days for that NON-EMERGENCY doctor appointment!

    We KNOW that adding 30 to 45 million people to the SAME number of health care facilities is NOT going to CUT WAIT TIMES, so please AdamT explain to us just how ObamaCare will NOT increase our wait times? Crickets...
    I was arguing national health care vs what we have NOW -- which is what the article discusses. I'm sure that wait time will increase in 2014 and beyond. That's life. We will have to encourage the training of more doctors and allow physicians assistants to do more, which they are very capable of doing. The AMA, like the ABA, is all about maintaining a monopoly for MDs.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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