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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1841
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That only works if your bills are small enough to make it relatively affordable, and if you can't afford health insurance then you certainly can't afford a big bill. What are you going to do if you get hit by a bus tomorrow and spend six months in the hospital? Probably stick the hospital with the bill.

    Isn't this a worse case scenerio?

    I have insurance and have had a few surgeries and had not one bit of trouble with the insurance company. I happen to be very, very satisfied with my health insurance. But now I think those days are gone. And I realize you're going to tell me that's not going to happen, but in my experience with any govt program, eventually it goes to hell in a handbasket and cost twice as much as it should.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Use of the Budget Reconciliation Act in the Senate to pass Obamacare was illegitimate. The Budget Reconciliation process can only be used if a piece of legislation has no budgetary impact. Obamacare was scored by the CBO as having no impact because the cost was supposed to have no budget impact because it was kept under a trillion dollars. After passage the CBO looked at the costs again and determined that the cost will instead be about $1.7 trillion over the next ten years.

    That means that Obamacare did have a budgetary impact and that the Budget Reconciliation process could not be used by the legislation's advocates in the Senate. They did it any way based on a lie to the CBO and the people.
    This seems to be a running gag within the Obama Administration. Every supposed figure they project from HC costs on through unemployment keeps getting revised higher than their initial projections. I'm sure it's just bureacratic oversight or something.

    CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 trillion over 10 yrs | WashingtonExaminer.com

    Republicans can use reconciliation and they will

    The Republican recipe for repeal - POLITICO.com Print View
    Last edited by Bronson; 06-29-12 at 05:16 PM.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And yet ironically alot of people that I have talked to about thier countries UHC they have all agreed that they got crap service. And you want this for us? Again, not surprised.
    The Commonwealth Fund (a nonpartisan health care policy thinktank) studied the health care systems in seven countries and compared the quality. The seven countries were the US, Canada, UK, Netherlands, Germany, Australia, and New Zealand. They compared them across 11 different variables that measured the quality of their health care systems. On 8 of the 11 variables, the US ranked sixth or seventh among the seven nations...and didn't rank better than fourth on any of them. The US also came in dead last for overall quality. But there is one variable where the US came in first: money spent. The US spends far more per capita ($7,290) on health care than any of the other countries. The runner-up, Canada, spent only $3,895.

    Perhaps this suggests that there is something that we could be learning from these other countries, which spend less and (your anecdote about dissatisfied foreigners notwithstanding) have better quality.

    http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Publ...or-Update.aspx
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-29-12 at 05:19 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    raising taxes= raising marginal income tax rates.
    and creating new taxes.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The Commonwealth Fund (a nonpartisan health care policy thinktank) studied the health care systems in seven countries and compared the quality. The seven countries were the US, Canada, UK, Netherlands, Germany, Australia, and New Zealand. They compared them across 11 different variables that measured the quality of their health care systems. On 8 of the 11 variables, the US ranked sixth or seventh among the seven nations...and didn't rank better than fourth on any of them. The US also came in dead last for overall quality. But there is one variable where the US came in first: money spent. The US spends far more per capita ($7,290) on health care than any of the other countries. The runner-up, Canada, spent only $3,895.

    Perhaps this suggests that there is something that we could be learning from these other countries, which spend less and (your anecdote about dissatisfied foreigners notwithstanding) have better quality.

    Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: How the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally, 2010 Update - The Commonwealth Fund
    That's an unfair comparison. With the exception of the United States all of the countries used in the cited report are totally First World countries. The United States is both a First and a Third World country. That has to be taken into consideration. America is a cross between Canada and Mexico. That puts the US in a different category.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    "In reality, both data and anecdotes show that the American people are already waiting as long or longer than patients living with universal health-care systems."
    The Doctor Will See You??n Three Months - Businessweek
    In 2007 we didn't have 40 million new patients and few new doctors did we.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And yet ironically alot of people that I have talked to about thier countries UHC they have all agreed that they got crap service. And you want this for us? Again, not surprised.
    Not sure whom it is you're talking to, but they dont speak for the majority of people in Canada:

    Canada
    Main article: Health care in Canada
    Health Canada, a federal department, publishes a series of surveys of the health care system in Canada based on Canadians first hand experience of the health care system. The following data are from the latest report.[64]
    Waiting times
    Although life threatening cases are dealt with immediately, some specialist services needed are non-urgent and patients are seen at the next available appointment in their local chosen facility.
    The median wait time in Canada to see a specialist physician is a little over a month with 89.5% waiting less than 3 months.[64]
    The median wait time for non-urgent diagnostic services such as MRI and CAT scans[65] is about two weeks with 86.4% waiting less than 3 months.[64]
    The median wait time for elective surgery is a month with 82.2% waiting less than 3 months.[64]
    Prescription drug costs
    Although Canadians get the services of their physicians and hospitals included, they do have to meet the cost of prescription drugs themselves. Many take out insurance for this but this is not compulsory. Some people do meet some expenses themselves out of pocket.
    34.3% of adults reported having no out of pocket costs for prescription drug costs. 96.2% of adults pay less than 5% of their disposable income on prescription drugs.[64]
    Overall satisfaction rate
    85.2% of Canadians reported that they were "satisfied" or "very satisfied" with the way health care services are provided in their country and an even higher number (89.8%) rated their physician in the same way though slightly lower ratings were awarded to hospitals (79.9% being "satisfied" or "very satisfied").[64]

    You can also find information for several other countires here Socialized medicine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    How many Canadians come to America to get health care? Not too many...how many Americans go to Canada to get health care? Plenty.
    Silly poor people
    Tax cuts are for the rich!

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Use of the Budget Reconciliation Act in the Senate to pass Obamacare was illegitimate. The Budget Reconciliation process can only be used if a piece of legislation has no budgetary impact.
    Actually it's only supposed to be used if it reduces the deficit, but continuing on...

    Obamacare was scored by the CBO as having no impact because the cost was supposed to have no budget impact because it was kept under a trillion dollars. After passage the CBO looked at the costs again and determined that the cost will instead be about $1.7 trillion over the next ten years.

    That means that Obamacare did have a budgetary impact and that the Budget Reconciliation process could not be used by the legislation's advocates in the Senate. They did it any way based on a lie to the CBO and the people.
    Very little of the ACA was passed via reconciliation. The bulk of the bill (including the individual mandate) was passed normally, with 60 votes in the Senate. Only a few changes were passed via reconciliation, and those few changes did not increase the budget deficit.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    hell in a handbasket and cost twice as much as it should.
    That may be the technical definition of government assistance.
    Thank you

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    In 2007 we didn't have 40 million new patients and few new doctors did we.
    Nor will we until 2014. Waiting times certainly will get worse. We have too many specialists and not enough primary care physicians.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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