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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1811
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    It's still more money out of the average persons pocket isn't it. Obama and the Democrats are going to get clobbered in November as there is only 34% support for the health care bill in 2012.
    What Obama's Affordable Care Act Will Cost Consumers - Business Insider

    Consumer penalties: Part of the controversy surrounding health care reform was that the law would mandate coverage for all Americans on pain of penalties. Those penalties will be tiered and rise over a three-year period that kicks off in 2014, according to the National Association of Consumer Protection:

    2014: Families––$285 or 1 percent of total household income, whichever is greater. Individual adults––$95.
    2015: Families––$975 or 2 percent of income, whichever is greater. Individual adults––$325.
    2016: Families––$2,085 or 2.5 percent of income, whichever is greater. Individual adults––$695.


    If you're not covered by your employer, you'll have to pick from a list of government-mandated health insurance packages (they'll be called "exchanges", with options for individuals and businesses provided at the state level). Some exceptions do apply, including low-income families who can prove financial hardship.
    Liberals are actually gloating over these numbers. Just because Roberts punted this garbage back to the other 2 branches doesn't mean it's a good law. And yes it's Unconstitutional. Roberts went activist because he was afraid the Court would be "Mic Checked" by Obama and the Democrats if he didn't cave to their thuggery and intimidation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    the average person, already has health insurance.

    the average person, won't pay one penny more in taxes, due to the ACA.
    No, they'll pay more in premiums and pay higher deductibles over time, as they have been. The provisions dont cap or control what insurance companies can charge. And now that their customers are federally mandated to remain customers, what's to prevent them from jacking rates further?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    LOL go for it. If you want to secede from the country, I'm certainly not going to stop you. Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you.
    Secession is out of the question. It's best to stay right here in America and to keep the political system frozen in paralysis so that the country can't adapt to the changed circumstances in the world caused by the shifting forces of history, e.g., the rise of China.



    Nah, that's called standard political salesmanship that occurs with ANY piece of major legislation. For constitutional purposes, the Supreme Court has ruled that it's a tax. For political purposes, Obama can call it whatever he likes, Romney can call it whatever he likes, and the voters will decide which vision they like better.
    The political culture doesn't work that way any more. The political culture dictates that each side undermine, sandbag and back stab each other. It's difficult to build something positive. It's easy to destroy something through sabotage.



    If all laws were invalid if there was any political spin associated with them, Congress would never get anything done.
    Nothing is going to get done in Congress because the political system is paralyzed.



    It's pretty difficult to take you seriously with all the racist **** you write.
    You're entitled to your opinion.

  4. #1814
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    So tell me again how the opt-outters are screwing The People? It doesn't sound like they have a way to simply evade all personal medical costs. Comparatively, it's by far the Medicaid and Medicare beneficiaries who are doing the most amount of screwing.
    It's pretty simple. Insurance works by spreading risk among a large, diverse population. If people only buy insurance when they get sick, insurance premiums would cost something like $100,000/yr. In other words, there would be no health insurance. Fortunately most people are responsible and they provide for their medical care when they can afford it. If someone can afford it but elects NOT to provide for his medical care, and then only signs on when he gets sick, that drives up costs for all the responsible people. Get it?

    So whether people are insured or not is irrelevant, as either way the cost of their care will be transferred.
    No, for the most part the cost of their care will be SPREAD amongst the insurance pool -- not transferred.

    The cost of living in a civilized society is to be on the hook for everyone's potentially limitless health care needs when it's clear that as a nation we cannot afford it? When the problem is financing a need that exceeds the ability to keep paying for it, the "cost of living in a civilized society" argument is an utter copout.
    What's a copout is saying that, unlike every other civilized country in the world, the United States of America can't afford to take care of its citizens. That's a pathetic cop out. The solution isn't to throw your hands up in the air and say, "too bad about the diagnosis -- rest in peace." The solution is to improve efficiency, cut spending, and raise taxes until you can sustain a civilized society.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  5. #1815
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Of course you don't care, as a stereotypical American who only thinks with their stomach or testicle.
    *-9/
    *grabs crotch* OH BOYEEEEE
    No Matt, I DO care as much as I can care, we just dont have a lot of options right now. How about you do something proactive, instead of playing with your dick, and push for more not for profit insurance companies so people like me and my sick friend, and the thousands upon thousands of other sick people, can purchase insurance from them instead.
    Silly poor people
    Tax cuts are for the rich!

  6. #1816
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm OK with that.
    Not really that surprised. Liberals often speak about rights and "thinking independently" but when it comes down to it they are just as bad as conservatives in the thinking department.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    My responses to you last night were polite, my posts today (after you continue the same tired arguments) will be less so: Maybe next time, you should try learning the actual contents of laws before you decide to fervently oppose them merely because FOX News shrieks about it for 24 hours a day. Try thinking for yourself for a change. And don't tell me that you independently came to this conclusion, because you clearly don't even have a good grasp of what's in the law.
    I don't watch fox news. Indeed I rarely watch ANY news period since I consider much of it to be nothing more than political hackery. So my advice to you...stop assuming that you know people that you don't.

    As far as your posts to me. I could care less how you frame them. I will continue to treat your posts just like I do any other post be they nice or rude. Just an FYI...I don't even look at the names of the people that I respond to unless I have to. So your posts will just end up blending in with everyone elses. Enjoy!
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  7. #1817
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    For a second time Billy, try to understand the issue:


    Q:Where did the $500 million taken from Medicare this year under President Obama’s health care law come from, and how does it affect Medicare for retiring baby boomers in 2012?

    A:The Affordable Care Act had a number of provisions that achieved savings in the Medicare program. Those savings, which is what you are referring to, come from primarily two places: payments and cuts. There is a slowdown in the increase of payments to hospitals, skilled nursing facilities and other health-care providers. In other words, their reimbursements will still increase, but they won't increase as much as they would have under old law. There will also be savings from actual cuts in reimbursements to Medicare advantage plans—which had been traditionally overpaid by the federal government, getting paid more than 100% of what the traditional or fee for service. The private insurance companies were getting 110% to 113% of what it costs the traditional-run government programs to take care of somebody—that number is getting ratcheted down to 100% over the next three to five years.
    The important thing to know is that these savings do two things: they will make the Medicare program more sustainable and are not expected to lead to any kinds of problems for baby boomers or anyone else on the Medicare programs. There are no cuts to benefits or increased premiums to people with Medicare because of these savings.


    Read more: Medicare Changes Every Boomer Needs to Know About for 2012 | Fox Business

    Hiya Gimmie!

    Don't worry I've got a real good understanding of the ruling. Thanks.

  8. #1818
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    In all this despair, let us not forget that companies still need to attract the best employees they can.

    With this added burden on business, they will become more selective.

  9. #1819
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Before it was passed, if you couldn't afford health insurance you were SOL. By 2014 if you can't afford health insurance, you'll either get free Medicaid or a subsidy on the health insurance exchange, depending on your income. And insurers won't be able to discriminate against you based on preexisting conditions.
    I was not SOL. Know what I did? Pay the medical bill. Imagine that...someone taking responsibility for thier bills. Yeah it may take time and not be paid all at once. But at least it is paid off on my own dime and not anyone elses.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  10. #1820
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Except that if it isn't a tax, then its unconstitutional, as per the SCOTUS opinion. Which means, its a tax, that can be repealed/replaced using reconciliation,
    But only the individual mandate. Per the CBO, repealing the entire law would increase the deficit.

    just like reconciliation was valid to pass it in the first place.
    Generally reconciliation is only allowed on measures that reduce the deficit. Most of the ACA (including the individual mandate) was passed through the standard process; only a small addendum was passed via reconciliation.
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