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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1801
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    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Actually the reality is that if we can't provide decent healthcare for our citizens then we must resign ourself to the fact that we are a failed society. You seem quite content with failure.
    Society hasnt failed because you have a bad attitude about the fact that not everyone has everything they need. Society has really failed when it recklessly spends itself into a collapse scenario.

    Financial failure spreads to all out economic failure. If your sense of universal fairness straps you into a set of policies that are financially self-destructive, then it's you who is content with failure, not me.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Small business owners will try to keep their emplyees numbers below 49. Why would it make sense to hire more people when much of the work can be outsourced without having to deal with American regulatory and tax burdens. Most small businesses are in survival mode and will remain there.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Naturally. Have to give them tons of money and access to the company jet to attract the right talent! Somehow this never gets applied to teachers...

    When the economy is bad, companies can more easily get away with dropping health care plans because people need the job. When things are better, people will have more options, and therefore will have the option to not work for the crappy company who dropped its health care plan.

    One thing that bothers me about this is how half the right-wing doesn't even seem upset about the ruling because they see it as another weapon to use in election season. This tells me they care less about the content of the laws and more about how they can "win."
    So we can repeal this garbage reform bill and get to work on something the people want.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    The owners of Dredd Scott also had the Supreme Court on their side. That decision helped precipitate the Civil War.
    LOL go for it. If you want to secede from the country, I'm certainly not going to stop you. Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you.

    The law is illegitimate because its passage was induced through fraud. Congress debated whether the Mandate was a tax and specifically rejected that basis because Congress didn't want to be held accountable for raising taxes. President Obama specifically said the Mandate wasn't a tax. Then President Obama's lawyers went to court and argued the Mandate was valid as an exercise of the power of taxation. That's called fraud in the inducement.
    Nah, that's called standard political salesmanship that occurs with ANY piece of major legislation. For constitutional purposes, the Supreme Court has ruled that it's a tax. For political purposes, Obama can call it whatever he likes, Romney can call it whatever he likes, and the voters will decide which vision they like better.

    That fraud is what ensures that the furor won't die.
    If all laws were invalid if there was any political spin associated with them, Congress would never get anything done.

    The flames of controversy will also be fanned by increased costs, declining quality and clear cut rationing. The line of causation to Obamacare will be readily apparent, and will impact white seniors particularly.
    It's pretty difficult to take you seriously with all the racist **** you write.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    raising taxes= raising marginal income tax rates.
    It's still more money out of the average persons pocket isn't it. Obama and the Democrats are going to get clobbered in November as there is only 34% support for the health care bill in 2012.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Naturally. Have to give them tons of money and access to the company jet to attract the right talent! Somehow this never gets applied to teachers...
    Sorry?
    Median Household income for the rural county I live in is 43K...
    Average teacher salary for the same county is 59k, starting salary is 38k and over the last 10 years they have gotten salary raises of 43%.

    Dont play this whiny bull**** with me. Teachers are doing fine.

    For this county 30k is doing ok, in a 2 income household 100k/year is enough to buy any house in the county if you manage your money decently. Its about like making double in Cali land.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    It's still more money out of the average persons pocket isn't it....
    the average person, already has health insurance.

    the average person, won't pay one penny more in taxes, due to the ACA.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    What was the point of the 10th amendment if ACA is constitutional? Congress can now pass any law that it desires under the guise that they're simply increasing taxes, but giving you a tax credit for yielding to its demands. The 10th amendment was designed to limit Congress's power to what was specified in the constitution.

    This ruling by SCOTUS instead says that Congress can make any rule that it wants so long as 1) it isn't specifically restricted by the constitution and 2) their means of enforcement is taxation.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    This is no fallacy. Its been proven time and again that if you give the government an inch they take 50 miles. Take Social Security Cards for instance. It was NEVER meant to be used in practically everything. In fact my dad still has his original which said that it was NOT to be given out for any reason. (and yes, they capitilized "NOT"). Now you need it for damn near anything. Even government jobs despite their original claim.

    Another example: Patriot Act. Another example: not allowing farmers to grow things over a certain amount per acreage. Another example: Citizens United.

    Should I really go on? This is no fallacy. It has historical factual precedence. You can keep your head in the sand if you want. But don't come crying to me when I am proving right.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Nah, that's called standard political salesmanship that occurs with ANY piece of major legislation. For constitutional purposes, the Supreme Court has ruled that it's a tax. For political purposes, Obama can call it whatever he likes, Romney can call it whatever he likes, and the voters will decide which vision they like better.
    Except that if it isn't a tax, then its unconstitutional, as per the SCOTUS opinion. Which means, its a tax, that can be repealed/replaced using reconciliation, just like reconciliation was valid to pass it in the first place.

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