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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertzz View Post
    Fair enough.

    Other libertarians will hate me for this: but I'm all for a single-payer system, run at the national level, approved at the state level.
    It looks like we found a common ground.
    I wanted a single payer system as well.
    I think this is a start down that road.


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    How do you figure that, since I can almost GUARANTEE that when our Union Contract is up next year the Company I work for is going to do everything in their power to limit or take our health insurance benefit away from us due to the "Cadilac" healthcare provision in this bill?
    Then go vote for a Republican. They just LOVE unions. <snicker>

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Pay more for Medicare? Taxed for a hip replacement? Example #2,078,622 of someone criticizing the ACA without even understanding what's in it. There are no such provisions in the ACA.

    Medicare was cut prior to this fisco was found constitutional by $500M. Who do you thinks going to pick up that tab?

    Part of the new and improved HC "taxes" is a tax on hip replacement devices. Who do you think is going to pick up the tab for this?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You had a miscarriage? How does a guy have a miscarriage?
    You can do it in California.
    Thank you

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Slavery was once the Law of the Land also. Along with many other things that never should have been. Yet they were gotten rid of. Now we have another POS piece of legislation to get rid of. Just how do you think we're going to achieve this if we don't cry out against it? Sorry Lpast but I WILL NOT shut up about this and just "make it the best it can be". Because the best it can be is still crap.

    Well said. Smack down.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I didn't make that claim. He did just raise taxes on everyone that can't or won't afford health insurance, middle-class or not.

    Mac here are the plans that are going to be sold by the insurance exchanges.

    General percentage by level paid by consumer
    (through deductibles, copays and coinsurance)

    Bronze Level 40%
    Silver Level 30%
    Gold Level 20%
    Platinum Level 10%

    What kind of coverage will the plans sold through the health insurance exchanges include?
    At the Bronze level (affordable?) If you need a hip replacement bring your VISA card.

    For patients without health insurance, a total hip replacement usually will cost between $31,839 and $44,816, with an average cost of $39,299, according to Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina.

    Cost of Hip Replacement - Consumer Information and Prices Paid - CostHelper.com
    If we break out the calculator.....$39,299 X 40% = $15,719.60 that would be what the patient is responsible for OR you would need some sort of gap insurance at more additional cost.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    They didn't say a law doesn't have to be constitutional as long as the only consequence is a tax. For example:

    - They can't pass a law taxing me for not buying a Bible. (1st Amendment)
    - They can't pass a law taxing me for not contributing to a political party. (All states are guaranteed a republican form of government.)
    - They can't pass a law taxing me for being a certain race or gender. (14th Amendment)
    - They can't pass a law taxing me for voting (24th Amendment)
    Upon thinking about this further:

    -They can't pass a law "not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States" (10th Amendment)

    You understand? the law CAN be unconstitutional so long as the consequence of that law is constitutional: a tax.

    What I'm trying to say is that the individual mandate for healthcare is not a power delegated to the US Government anywhere in the constitution. Which means, per the 10th amendment, it is unconstitutional to pass such a law. If they cannot stretch the commerce clause or necessary & proper clause to cover it, then it's unconstitutional. This is why it was always so important to debate these clauses at the SCOTUS level.
    Last edited by fredmertzz; 06-29-12 at 03:29 PM.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Medicare was cut prior to this fisco was found constitutional by $500M. Who do you thinks going to pick up that tab?
    The taxpayers and/or the providers. Not the patients. The Affordable Care Act makes no such provision for charging patients more for Medicare.

    Part of the new and improved HC "taxes" is a tax on hip replacement devices. Who do you think is going to pick up the tab for this?
    Is this what you're referring to? If so, it's an excise tax charged to the manufacturers, not the patients. And it will be more than offset by the increased demand for such devices due to more people having insurance.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Those two statements mean the same thing. Prior to the ACA you had no recourse if you couldn't afford health insurance; now the costs will be transferred to the public, as they should be.

    Ok I can like that definition. Another govt welfare program.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertzz View Post
    Upon thinking about this further:

    -They can't pass a law "not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States" (10th Amendment)

    You understand? the law CAN be unconstitutional so long as the consequence of that law is constitutional: a tax.

    What I'm trying to say is that the individual mandate for healthcare is not a power delegated to the US Government anywhere in the constitution.
    But in this case, it *is* a power delegated to the US government in the Constitution...in Congress' power to levy a tax:

    Quote Originally Posted by US Constitution, Article I, Section 8
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

    To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

    To provide and maintain a Navy;

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-29-12 at 03:34 PM.
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