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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    its not a traditional tax.
    That doesn't mean it is not a tax. Since it is new, obviously it's not "traditional".
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The penalty will rise somewhat rapidly in the next several years, so you'll be paying closer to $1,000. Still cheaper, right? But at least you've paid something to offset costs.
    If you forego insurance but have money and incur big medical expenses, you're billed for them. What happens if you have money but still refuse to pay?

    And of course all of this hand wringing is overblown insofar very few people will actually be impacted by the mandate. Most get insurance through their employer, or get Medicare/aid, or would qualify for subsidized insurance.

    So to actually get hit you have to be able to afford insurance but turn it down, making the conscious decision to pay the penalty because you know you can screw over your fellow Americans if you do get sick by cheating the insurance system.
    What screws over fellow Americans is that there's any way at all to get oodles of health care at no cost. That includes Medicare and Medicaid. You act as though someone getting medical without insurance screws others over in a way that being able to fill out paperwork for free medical somehow does not. One way or another people with no money are incurring costs on the rest of us. That's what screws us.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Wow, so you're the personification of the Santa Cruz Realtors Association? Great job with that housing crisis.
    Counselor, you know better than to make specious arguments. I was the personification of a public charity as defined by Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended. Why use the Realtors? They gave my charity a built in source of fundraising for my charitable objective.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertzz View Post
    This guy starts a non-profit to help the less fortunate afford housing and you use it as an opportunity to call him disingenuous about his other concerns in society? Then immediately after making the bold statement, claim to want to keep this topic 'on track' and ask for the conversation to end like that???

    Man... I just don't know to say.
    It's usually best to say nothing when you're in doubt.

    ......but yeah, when someone makes numerous posts about how the ACA is going to destroy our white elderly population, I want to see if he's putting his money where his mouth is.
    Seems he's not.


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You obviously don't have a very solid understanding of how the Constitution - or legal jurisprudence - works. Taxes ARE laws and always have been. What the Supreme Court ACTUALLY said was that it couldn't be justified under the Commerce Clause or the Necessary and Proper Clause, but it *is* justified under the "levy a tax" clause.

    An analogy: Just because Congress has the power to establish post offices doesn't mean that everything they do has to be justified by the post office clause. They can also exercise their OTHER powers. Similarly, just because Congress passed a tax doesn't mean that it ALSO has to be justified by the commerce clause. As long as it's justified by ANY of Congress' enumerated powers, it does not exceed their authority.
    But they have no authority under the constitution for the individual mandate! So individual mandates are unconstitutional. They confirmed this yesterday. But because this doesn't have any consequence of Congress beyond its authority to tax, it is allowed. What they're saying is that rules passed by Congress do not have to be constitutional so long as the consequence of breaking the rules is a tax.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, because it's a tax penalty and he made no bones about it being a tax penalty. The penalty is exactly how it was described, and whether Congress created it under the auspices of its taxing power or it's power to regulate commerce doesn't change that one iota.

    http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/video?id=8620606
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What exactly is fraudulent about it? It was passed by both democratically-elected houses of Congress. It was signed into law by the democratically-elected president. And it was upheld by the Supreme Court, which are appointed by the democratically-elected president and confirmed by the democratically-elected Senate.

    Fraudulent =/= any law you dislike.
    Ordered Liberty » ObamaCare Ruling: Pure Fraud and No Due Process

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    It's usually best to say nothing when you're in doubt.

    ......but yeah, when someone makes numerous posts about how the ACA is going to destroy our white elderly population, I want to see if he's putting his money where his mouth is.
    Seems he's not.
    yes, shame on him for prioritizing his concerns and not having unlimited funds...

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertzz View Post
    yes, shame on him for prioritizing his concerns and not having unlimited funds...
    Oh come on, fred. Let's get this thread back on track. Whaddya say?

    What are your thoughts about the ACA?


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Last year the voters in Ohio voted 2-1 in support of a proposal to prevent them from being forced to participate in a health care system. Wonder how that's gonna play out...

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