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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1741
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Okay, think about it this way. These bull**** programs were always sold under the Commerce Clause when everyone knew what they really are.....taxes. If nothing else, Roberts has removed the ability to do that and placed these programs out in the sunlight where they can be seen for what they are. No more commerce, no more bull****, no more slight of hand.
    You're right; this is a much better alternative than further devaluing the commerce clause to encompass an individual mandate to a non-existing market (the non-insurance holders). I just disagree that this can be reasonably be considered a 'direct tax'. But if they're going to get away with it one way or another, hopefully this will at least keep it a little more transparent to the fools who voted these politicians into office.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    Hey, that's great! Good on you.
    What's the website?
    Santa Cruz Housing Foundation

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    So you agree Obama wasn't telling the truth when he said it wasn't a tax.
    No, because it's a tax penalty and he made no bones about it being a tax penalty. The penalty is exactly how it was described, and whether Congress created it under the auspices of its taxing power or it's power to regulate commerce doesn't change that one iota.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Oh, I thought your main concern was with the elderly. I guess I misinterpreted all those other posts you made about it.

    I don't want to de-rail this thread from healthcare to first time home owner assistance so continue on.........


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    Hey, that's great! Good on you.
    What's the website?
    After I set up the foundation I created the Planned Giving Program. There are many ways in which you can make a donation through the Planned Giving Program. Go to the website and click and check out my ideas about:



    Supporting the Housing Foundation: Connecting with the future

    Make a Planned or Deferred Gift

    Planned, or deferred, gifts can provide significant benefits to you and your loved ones now and in the future, while offering financial support for the Housing Foundation's mission for many years to come.

    Some popular planned giving vehicles include:
    •Bequests
    •Gifts of retirement assets
    •Gifts of life insurance
    •Charitable gift annuities
    •Deferred gift annuities
    •Charitable remainder annuity trusts
    •Charitable remainder unitrusts
    •Charitable lead trusts may also serve as a vehicle in appropriate cases

    The Housing Foundation will work with you and your financial advisors to create a gift plan that works for you. For more information, please contact the Planned Giving Committee by telephone at (831) 464-2000, or by email at hf@scaor.org.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertzz View Post
    They specifically said that the individual mandate is not constitutional anywhere in the constitution. not under the commerce clause. not under the necessary and proper clause. They can now pass laws that are not allowable by the constitution so long as the punishment of disobeying the law is only a tax. Because it's not a 'law'. It's only encouragement...
    You obviously don't have a very solid understanding of how the Constitution - or legal jurisprudence - works. Taxes ARE laws and always have been. What the Supreme Court ACTUALLY said was that it couldn't be justified under the Commerce Clause or the Necessary and Proper Clause, but it *is* justified under the "levy a tax" clause.

    An analogy: Just because Congress has the power to establish post offices doesn't mean that everything they do has to be justified by the post office clause. They can also exercise their OTHER powers. Similarly, just because Congress passed a tax doesn't mean that it ALSO has to be justified by the commerce clause. As long as it's justified by ANY of Congress' enumerated powers, it does not exceed their authority.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Wow, so you're the personification of the Santa Cruz Realtors Association? Great job with that housing crisis.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    Oh, I thought your main concern was with the elderly. I guess I misinterpreted all those other posts you made about it.

    I don't want to de-rail this thread from healthcare to first time home owner assistance so continue on.........
    That's ok. People make mistakes all the time.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    Oh, I thought your main concern was with the elderly. I guess I misinterpreted all those other posts you made about it.

    I don't want to de-rail this thread from healthcare to first time home owner assistance so continue on.........

    This guy starts a non-profit to help the less fortunate afford housing and you use it as an opportunity to call him disingenuous about his other concerns in society? Then immediately after making the bold statement, claim to want to keep this topic 'on track' and ask for the conversation to end like that???

    Man... I just don't know to say.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Does any one remember the delegitimization the Supreme Court experienced in the eyes of Liberals and Leftists after the decision in Bush v. Gore? That decision poisoned the political culture of America. Many Liberals and Leftists said that Bush wasn't their president. The same thing will be true on the right based on the fraudulent passage of Obamacare and the decision in Roberts v. America.
    What exactly is fraudulent about it? It was passed by both democratically-elected houses of Congress. It was signed into law by the democratically-elected president. And it was upheld by the Supreme Court, which are appointed by the democratically-elected president and confirmed by the democratically-elected Senate.

    Fraudulent =/= any law you dislike.
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