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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    Well here is what I understand from one of the 100 things about the bill I read yesterday. They ruled that Congress had the right to tax, but that when the tax goes into affect in 2014 another case can be raised about whether the tax itself is constitutional now that tax has been put into affect. So, that could be an agrument against your hypothetical situation (and a way to get it ruled unconstitional) and simply because Congress can tax, does not make the tax itself constitutional. Granted, I do not really understand much of it myself. I will try and look for the article.
    That's the problem, the tax power was interpreted so openly that nothing else need be used. So something can be completely outside of the scope of government powers but taxable as an event, even punitavely so, I don't get where the power to tax can be extended to powers not granted and would love to know what the hell Roberts was smoking this week.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    He doesn't see it that way. There are others who don't either. But the courts did. So, what makes this an issue for you and others? It doesn't change anything, other than tax will be repeated by republicans ad nausium.
    The attorney arguing the case also did, which is why his tertiary argument was based on Congress' authority to tax.

    My main issue is that I feel that the individual mandate is at the very least, an innapropriate overreach of govt. Another issue is the President, who is well versed on Constitutional law, claimed he would not pay for it through taxes and that is exaclty what he did. And he HAD to know that he was doing it.

    Lastly, I'm simply amazed that it was upheld under Congress' right to tax, and nothing else, yet the partisans here still insist it is not a tax.
    Last edited by mac; 06-29-12 at 02:07 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Dude, I was an insurance professional for quite some time.
    What happens when you increase the size of a risk pool?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Wait though, sin taxes fall under different catagories and exist because of an activity. With this decision the court basically says that you can be taxed without even a legal standing or compelling reason. Now all the government has to do is pass a "because we feel like it" tax, and if they have no other legal standing they can coerce you into compliance with the threat of tax bankruptcy. What happened here is not as simple as a sin tax.
    Government has always been able to raise, lower, create, and eliminate taxes because they feel like it. Your recourse for that is to elect someone else, not to try to claim the tax is illegitimate or unconstitutional.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-29-12 at 02:08 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    What happens when you increase the size of a risk pool?
    Dunno, how high is the added risk. If you add more unhealthy people than healthy the cost increases for those who previously qualified. What you are asking is basically asking "Why is the sky?".
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Nope. I'm rather enjoying watching you flail around and have a temper tantrum.
    You are entitled to enjoy the moment. But all mirth is fleeting.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    What liberals want more than anything else at this point on the subject of Obamacare is peace and acquiesence. Isn't that true?

    The meme on the right is that a fraud has been committed and resulted in an illegitimate act. That belief ensures that the furor will not die.

    Since Obamacare will be in effect there will be an APPARENT direct line of causation between the increase in costs that would have occurred in any event and the decline of health care quality which results from rationing. And yes there will be clear healthcare rationing. Some groups like white seniors are clear losers.
    Those that create and or promote false memes do not serve his fellow man, they are working against his best interests.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Government has always been able to raise, lower, create, and eliminate taxes because they feel like it. Your recourse for that is to elect someone else, not to try to claim the tax is illegitimate or unconstitutional.
    Yes, but now they can tax you for not doing something... Now they can encourage us to do whatever they please, even beyond the bounds of the commerce clause or the necessary and proper clause (they explained that the individual mandate is not covered by either), so long as the only punishment for not doing what they ask us to do is a "tax". This is reach is much further than anything they've ever done. They've just said that the commerce clause & necessary & proper clause are completely irrelevant. That they can pass any law they want, so long as the punishment is only a tax.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I didn't make that claim. He did just raise taxes on everyone that can't or won't afford health insurance, middle-class or not.
    so you just moved the goal posts.

    first its "Obama broke his promise not to raise taxes on the middle-class".

    now its "Obama broke his promise to not raise taxes on everyone that can't or won't afford health insurance, middle-class or not".

    Obama has slightly raised the yearly taxes of folks who don't have and refuse to buy health insurance, whether they be billionaires or lower middle-class. Those taxes will go down as soon as they buy insurance or get a job that includes it.

    suggesting that this can be considered a tax-increase on the middle-class, is intellectually absurd.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertzz View Post
    Yes, but now they can tax you for not doing something... Now they can encourage us to do whatever they please...
    don't worry, they won't be taxing you for not buying a squirt gun.

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