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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1691
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Lets get it right folks...the reason there will never be Medicare for all...is that there is too much money in the health insurance industry going to politicians they will never give up one of their golden gooses.
    Which is the real reason we don't have universal health care today, not because of "socialism," or "death panels" or any of the other absurd claims being made against UHC.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Why don't you do it for us then?
    Medicaid costs per person by state: What is the cost per person annually for medicaid
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    only in a backwards, reverse-reality dimension is this considered to be the same thing as raising taxes on the Middle-class.

    I am lower middle-class. And yet, Obama didn't just raise my taxes.

    end of story.
    The end of the story is that it is a tax, upheld by the authority to tax.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The end of the story is that it is a tax, upheld by the authority to tax.
    But Obama didn't just raise taxes on the Middle-class. Such a claim is absurd.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Medicaid costs per person by state: What is the cost per person annually for medicaid
    The answer: national 2008 Average Per Capita Medicaid Expenses is $14780.

    and yet:

    Health Spending per Capita
    United States $6,815
    Something doesn't add up there. How can the cost just for Medicaid be more than twice as much as the cost for everyone put together?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    its a penalty, not a tax. taxes are not punitive.
    This one is.

    Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Law, 5-4, in Victory for Obama

    By ADAM LIPTAK
    Published: June 28, 2012

    WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld President Obama’s health care overhaul law, saying its requirement that most Americans obtain insurance or pay a penalty was authorized by Congress’s power to levy taxes. The vote was 5 to 4, with Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. joining the court’s four more liberal members.

    “The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax,” Chief Justice Roberts wrote in the majority opinion. “Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us...pagewanted=all
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    This is a real scary part to this whole bill being found constitutional. What's next?
    I think the supporters of this decision missed a very important point I made. Let's say the religious right wins the next election and uses the decision for political gain, they say "okay, fine, you win on the abortion debate it's legal" "thanks to your new backdoor though we now can tax an abortion at 1000%, go ahead, take it to SCOTUS, but remember thanks to your new champion John Roberts we can tax for anything". Or, since the BOR was subjugated to tax powers, if say..........the poll tax were to be re-instituted, the civil rights act < BOR < Taxation. People don't realize what was done here.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    This one is.
    ok, but its not an increase in any income tax rates.

    so calling it a tax-increase on the middle-class is intellectually absurd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I think the supporters of this decision missed a very important point I made. Let's say the religious right wins the next election and uses the decision for political gain, they say "okay, fine, you win on the abortion debate it's legal" "thanks to your new backdoor though we now can tax an abortion at 1000%, go ahead, take it to SCOTUS, but remember thanks to your new champion John Roberts we can tax for anything". Or, since the BOR was subjugated to tax powers, if say..........the poll tax were to be re-instituted, the civil rights act < BOR < Taxation. People don't realize what was done here.
    they could have done that anyway. sin taxes have long been established.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Wrong. He has lied. He specifically said that it was not a tax. It was deemed constitutional under Congress' authority to tax. It is a tax...and a lie.
    He doesn't see it that way. There are others who don't either. But the courts did. So, what makes this an issue for you and others? It doesn't change anything, other than tax will be repeated by republicans ad nausium.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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