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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1681
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There isn't. There will be a maximum premium rate in order for plans to qualify for the health insurance exchanges, but the government does not set the premium under the ACA. Insurers will be free to compete with one another on premium rates as long as they stay below that ceiling, in accordance with supply and demand.



    They spread the risk among their policy-holders and pay out the costs of health insurance to whichever policy-holders lose the game of health roulette.



    If you want to cut them out of the loop entirely, you won't get many objections from me.



    And this is a problem why? What exactly do you think insurers do NOW, if not act as paper pushers to verify/pay claims money?
    What the insurers do NOW is set risk based; rates based on age, gender, smoking, weight/height and many other factors, in short, they DISCRIMINATE. They set ACTUARIAL based variable PREMIUM RATES, that is their current MAIN JOB. Under ObamaCare do the "exchanges" do that DISCRIMINATING? Do they still allow the "private" insurance companies to do that DISCRIMINATING? Under ObamaCare can "private" insurance rates still vary based on age, gender, weight/height and smoking?
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-29-12 at 01:10 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Which we all know is PURE fantasy. The average annual cost per Medicaid patient is NOW over $7,400. Multiply that by the millions added by ObamaCare PLUS a portion of that for each added to the "subsidized" pools by ObamaCare and you come up with the REAL cost. The CBO did NOT do that simple math.
    Why don't you do it for us then?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    EXACTLY. ObamaCare = Income redistribution. Taking setting the risk based premium rates out of the private insurance "business" leaves absolutely NOTHING for them to do but verify/pay claims for a profit (set by the gov't).
    And yet...I'm OK with that.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What the insurers do NOW is set risk based; rates based on age, gender, smoking, weight/height and many other factors, in short, they DISCRIMINATE. They set ACTUARIAL based variable PREMIUM RATES, that is their current MAIN JOB. Under ObamaCare do the "exchanges" do that DISCRIMINATING? Do they still allow the "private" insurance companies to do that DISCRIMINATING? Under ObamaCare can "private" insurance rates still vary based on age, gender, weight/height and smoking?
    Discrimination based on gender is banned. Discrimination based on age is still allowed, but the premium spread for any given policy can't be more than 3-to-1 (old-to-young). Discrimination based on weight/height is not allowed. Discrimination based on smoking is allowed (as it should be), but the premium spread for any given policy can't be more than 1.5-to-1 (smokers-to-nonsmokers).

    But I'll tell you what. I think that Mitt Romney should campaign on bringing back discrimination based on preexisting conditions, and forcing women to pay more than men for their health insurance. That seems like a real political winner.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Why not simply put EVERYBODY on Medicaid/Medicare and tax them directly at the ObamaCare defined "fair" rates? The answer, of course, is that would expose the SCAM and its TRUE COSTS immediately, rather than pretend it will "save money".
    Why not indeed? Most other countries cover all of their citizens on what we pay just for the elderly and the indigent.

    We could save even more by making Medicare a catastrophic care package that covers everyone, and lets us pay out of pocket for doctor's visits and the like.

    The bottom line to all of this is that medical care costs are bankrupting the nation. Medical care costs significantly more than all federal expenditures outside of Medicare/Medicaid, and are increasing faster than inflation every year.

    and no, "Obamacare" as it exists today isn't going to rein in costs significantly.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Lets get it right folks...the reason there will never be Medicare for all...is that there is too much money in the health insurance industry going to politicians they will never give up one of their golden gooses.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    its a penalty, not a tax. taxes are not punitive.

    It was upheld under congress' authority to tax and nothing else. It's a tax.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Incorrect. A person making just above this dollar amount would pay no more than 3-4% of their income toward insurance premiums. In other words, they could actually buy a policy for $600 a year.

    In both of these cases, families earning just above the poverty line would have their health care subsidized to the point that they would only be paying 3-4% of their income toward premiums each year.


    I have a source from some kooky bloggers called the Department of HHS, Department of Treasury, and Congressional Research Service:
    http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resour...s01282011a.pdf
    http://web.archive.org/web/201010272...iumCredits.pdf
    http://www.treasury.gov/press-center...BFactSheet.PDF

    Sigh. Is it really too much to ask that people actually learn the contents of the law before they go running their mouths about how horrible it is? I mean, it's one thing to disagree with the Supreme Court's interpretation of "tax," or to think that some provision of the law is bad policy. It's another thing to not even know the contents of the law. Sadly, this seems to be par for the course with the Affordable Care Act's most vocal opponents.
    Kandahar--Just want to say thank you. You've been really great in this thread and willing to share a lot of your knowledge on this topic. I especially appreciate the links you've provided.



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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Lets get it right folks...the reason there will never be Medicare for all...is that there is too much money in the health insurance industry going to politicians they will never give up one of their golden gooses.
    There's about to be a lot less. PPACA mandates that they spend at least 80-85% of revenue on health care. If they don't, they have to rebate their customers for the difference.That only leaves 15-20% for everything else...administrative costs, overhead, profits, etc. They aren't going to have much money left to bribe politicians.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It was upheld under congress' authority to tax and nothing else. It's a tax.
    only in a backwards, reverse-reality dimension is this considered to be the same thing as raising taxes on the Middle-class.

    I am lower middle-class. And yet, Obama didn't just raise my taxes.

    end of story.

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