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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1671
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Medicaid is NOT free. Medicaid is a 50/50 split of state/federal TAX money, the states, unlike the federal gov't must actually TAX their residents to get the money, the federal gov't simply borrows it. For every ONE that will be compelled to BUY their own medical care insurance, there will be THREE that the TAXPAYERS will be compelled to support (either by subsidized exchanges or Medicaid). Adding 30 to 45 million NEW people at an average cost of $7,400 annually is not FREE, which is why ObamaCare was not made "live" until 2014.
    I mean it's free to the consumer.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    [...] You claim up to 400% subsidies, do you have any proof that comes from a reliable source and not a "kook" blogspot?
    [...] I have a source from some kooky bloggers called the Department of HHS, Department of Treasury, and Congressional Research Service:

    http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resour...s01282011a.pdf
    http://web.archive.org/web/201010272...iumCredits.pdf
    http://www.treasury.gov/press-center...BFactSheet.PDF

    Sigh. Is it really too much to ask that people actually learn the contents of the law before they go running their mouths about how horrible it is? I mean, it's one thing to disagree with the Supreme Court's interpretation of "tax," or to think that some provision of the law is bad policy. It's another thing to not even know the contents of the law. Sadly, this seems to be par for the course with the Affordable Care Act's most vocal opponents.
    They get their information from "kook blogspots"

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    its a penalty, not a tax. taxes are not punitive.
    Pigovian tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I think maybe it can narrowly fit a "tax". I'm still withholding judgement on this whole decision, and I don't believe that Roberts' intent was to support the left; though practically he has in the short term. This law was not upheld at all based upon what liberals wanted, and I find that fascinating.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    At the end of the day, which it is, it was a good day for Americans.... we still have the 37th best healthcare system in the world, but at least we took a step forward.

    Attachment 67130111

    A good day. Many before Obama worked to move the ball down the field. Perhaps Obama doesn't get the TD of national healthcare, we we'll settle for the FG.

    Its now time to put this silliness behind us and move on to real issues; like the economy.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    They can still use risk to set rates, it just has to be for the general population instead of specific people. So for example, they can take the risk of an average person needing treatment for childhood leukemia, and adding that risk into the premiums for everyone. What they can't do is discriminate against people who already have those conditions. If they could, then insurance would simply be unaffordable for them.



    No.



    Several reasons:
    1) Those things are far less important to the economy than health insurance. So who cares?

    2) Health insurance is an absolute necessity, because you will be financially ruined if you need it and don't have it. No one's forcing you to own a home or a car.

    3) If you are considered a high risk for home insurance or car insurance, it's to a large degree due to your own behavior. If you are considered a high risk for health insurance, it's much more difficult to make that connection, especially for age or preexisting conditions.

    4) You are inherently able to afford home insurance or car insurance, if you could afford the home/car in the first place. If you aren't, then sell your damn home/car and buy a cheaper one. You can't do that with your health, and there are many people who ARE unable to afford health insurance.

    5) If your house is damaged and you don't have insurance, the only one who loses out is you. If your car is damaged and you don't have collision insurance, the only one who loses out is you. If you need health care and you don't have health insurance, the taxpayers pick up the bill. This is also the same reason that most states require at least SOME car insurance...not for you or your car, but to pay the medical bills of other people if you cause an accident.
    That makes NO sense at all. If there is ONE premium rate (set by the gov't) and all must pay it (or get it subsidized by the taxpayers) then what does "private" medical insurance do except for take a cut of the action as a profit? Medicaid and Medicare now contain 100% of the RULES and paper pushers to verify/pay claims money to PRIVATE health care providers now; WHY does ObamaCare keep "private" insurance in the loop?

    The ONLY reason is to pretend that "options" are available, when, in fact, they are not, since ObamaCare sets ALL the premium rates, defines the minimum/maximum benefits AND the allowable "overhead" (profit?) then there is nothing left for the insurance company to do EXCEPT act as paper pushers to verify/pay claims money to PRIVATE health care providers; EXACTLY what Medicaid/Medicare now do as well (but with no "profit").

    Why not simply put EVERYBODY on Medicaid/Medicare and tax them directly at the ObamaCare defined "fair" rates? The answer, of course, is that would expose the SCAM and its TRUE COSTS immediately, rather than pretend it will "save money".
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-29-12 at 12:49 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Those two statements mean the same thing. Prior to the ACA you had no recourse if you couldn't afford health insurance; now the costs will be transferred to the public, as they should be.
    You're right. Before PPACA you had no recourse and the costs were transferred to the public. NOW after PPACA the costs will be transferred to the public. OR are you saying that before PPACA those without HI did not get medical care? Note the difference between HI and medical care.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That makes NO sense at all. If there is ONE premium rate (set by the gov't)
    There isn't. There will be a maximum premium rate in order for plans to qualify for the health insurance exchanges, but the government does not set the premium under the ACA. Insurers will be free to compete with one another on premium rates as long as they stay below that ceiling, in accordance with supply and demand.

    and all must pay it (or get it subsidized by the taxpayers) then what does "private" medical insurance do except for take a cut of the action as a profit?
    They spread the risk among their policy-holders and pay out the costs of health insurance to whichever policy-holders lose the game of health roulette.

    Medicaid and Medicare now contain 100% of the RULES and paper pushers to verify/pay claims money to PRIVATE health care providers now; WHY does ObamaCare keep "private" insurance in the loop?
    If you want to cut them out of the loop entirely, you won't get many objections from me.

    The ONLY reason is to pretend that "options" are available, when, in fact, they are not, since ObamaCare sets the premium rates, defines the minimum/maximum benefits AND the allowable "overhead" (profit?) then there is nothing left for the insurance company to do EXCEPT act as paper pushers to verify/pay claims money to PRIVATE health care providers; EXACTLY what Medicaid/Medicare now do as well (but with no "profit").
    And this is a problem why? What exactly do you think insurers do NOW, if not act as paper pushers to verify/pay claims money?
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Think about this for a minute. Does it even seem plausible? I mean the median income is like what around $50k which means half of the population makes that or less. IF they have insurance now it costs $15k (per you) AND the $2k is correct they will get a ~85% reduction in cost with PPACA. Where is all this money going to come from?
    It appears that some haven't been paying attention the past two years.

    It's going to come from the places mentioned in the healthcare bill that was passed two years ago. Perhaps you should, um, read up on that?

    In short, as orginally scored, Obamacare was going to cost $1 trillion over 10 years, so they either raised taxes (or cut loopholes) or cut spending (the $500 billion out of Medicare Advantage that the right is always lying about) to offset that $1 trillion over 10 years. Again, research is your friend... especially since that info is 2 years old.
    Last edited by Karl; 06-29-12 at 12:51 PM.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I mean it's free to the consumer.
    EXACTLY. ObamaCare = Income redistribution. Taking setting the risk based premium rates out of the private insurance "business" leaves absolutely NOTHING for them to do but verify/pay claims for a profit (set by the gov't).
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    It appears that some haven't been paying attention the past two years.

    It's going to come from the places mentioned in the healthcare bill that was passed two years ago. Perhaps you should, um, read up on that?

    In short, as orginally scored, Obamacare was going to cost $1 trillion over 10 years, so they either raised taxes (or cut loopholes) or cut spending (the $500 billion out of Medicare Advantage that the right is always lying about) to offset that $1 trillion over 10 years. Again, research is your friend... especially since that info is 2 years old.
    Which we all know is PURE fantasy. The average annual cost per Medicaid patient is NOW over $7,400. Multiply that by the millions added by ObamaCare PLUS a portion of that for each added to the "subsidized" pools by ObamaCare and you come up with the REAL cost. The CBO did NOT do that simple math.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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