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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1651
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm OK with that.



    My responses to you last night were polite, my posts today (after you continue the same tired arguments) will be less so: Maybe next time, you should try learning the actual contents of laws before you decide to fervently oppose them merely because FOX News shrieks about it for 24 hours a day. Try thinking for yourself for a change. And don't tell me that you independently came to this conclusion, because you clearly don't even have a good grasp of what's in the law.
    Are YOU saying that YOU know what is "in that law"? Much of it has not yet been written. You can not change the "cost" of something by simple gov't mandate, only who pays the cost can be changed.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are YOU saying that YOU know what is "in that law"?
    Yes. Yes I am saying that. And I have yet to meet an opponent of the ACA who actually understands what it does. But don't feel bad...even Justice Scalia didn't understand it. He literally used a FOX News talking point about the "Cornhusker Kickback" during oral arguments. This is remarkable for two reasons: 1) It had nothing to do with the legal arguments, and 2) It doesn't actually exist in the law because it was removed.

    Unfortunately, most opponents of the ACA have misconceptions of what the bill does that are much more substantive than just a silly little pork-barrel project.

    Much of it has not yet been written.
    HHS regulations have not all been written yet. The ACA was an act of Congress with which I'm quite familiar, and which deals with the high-level regulations.

    You can not change the "cost" of something by simple gov't mandate, only who pays the cost can be changed.
    And so the costs will be transferred from those who can't afford health insurance to those who can. Boom. What now?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-29-12 at 12:03 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And so the costs will be transferred from those who can't afford health insurance to those who can. Boom. What now?
    And how is that different now than before PPACA was passed?...boom?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    until Obama raises marginal FIT rates on the middle-class, he has kept his word.
    Wrong. He has lied. He specifically said that it was not a tax. It was deemed constitutional under Congress' authority to tax. It is a tax...and a lie.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    And how is that different now than before PPACA was passed?...boom?
    Before it was passed, if you couldn't afford health insurance you were SOL. By 2014 if you can't afford health insurance, you'll either get free Medicaid or a subsidy on the health insurance exchange, depending on your income. And insurers won't be able to discriminate against you based on preexisting conditions.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-29-12 at 12:07 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Before it was passed, if you couldn't afford health insurance you were SOL. By 2014 if you can't afford health insurance, you'll either get free Medicaid or a subsidy on the health insurance exchange. And insurers won't be able to discriminate against you based on preexisting conditions.
    If an insurance company can not use RISK to set rates, then why have insurance companies at all? Do you favor this for auto and homeowners insurance as well? If not WHY not?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And now republicans are vowing to dismantle Obamacare, and repeal it. Let's stay on topic k?

    Did Obama lie when he told ABC that it wasn't a tax?
    One man's tax is another man's fee or penalty or service charge or whatever.

    At the end of the day, it all boils down to whether money is being taken out of your pocket or not. Call it what you like.

    Both parties do this. Dance around the definitions of tax.

    Maybe we should take the big oil subsidies and corporate farm subsidies and all that money we piss away to foreign countries (foreign aid) and throw it into the insurance pool instead.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    makes me suspicious that he started with his result and worked backwards. Krauthammer has an interesting piece on this.
    What Krauthammer says is basically how I see it, without the judgement of Roberts. I'm unsure about Roberts' politics on this.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And now republicans are vowing to dismantle Obamacare, and repeal it. Let's stay on topic k?

    Did Obama lie when he told ABC that it wasn't a tax?
    According to Chief Justice Roberts, yes. I think he would also say that Romney lied about not raising taxes.

    So both guys lied. Good for you, you figured out that they're politicians. Question is, which liar are you going to vote for, not who is a liar.


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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Wrong. He has lied. He specifically said that it was not a tax. It was deemed constitutional under Congress' authority to tax. It is a tax...and a lie.
    its a penalty, not a tax. taxes are not punitive.

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