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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #151
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives

    Under the mandate, if an individual does not maintain health insurance, the only consequence is that he must make an additional payment to the IRS when he pays his taxes. See §5000A(b). That, according to the Government,means the mandate can be regarded as establishing acondition—not owning health insurance—that triggers atax—the required payment to the IRS. Under that theory, the mandate is not a legal command to buy insurance.Rather, it makes going without insurance just another thing the Government taxes, like buying gasoline or earning income. And if the mandate is in effect just a tax hike on certain taxpayers who do not have health insurance, itmay be within Congress’s constitutional power to tax.
    So I wonder what can't be a "tax" now. It seems to me like any time the government wishes to coerce an act (such as a purchase), all they have to do is put a steep fine on it and claim the fine is a "tax."

    So what am I missing here? What's the distinction?
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Irrelevant. Demonstrable incompetence is demonstrable incompetence.

    I don't care if you have a PHD in Mathematics from MIT. If someone else says 2+2=5, and you give your stamp of approval to that, you're too ignorant of mathematics to be performing your job.
    So why do you know more about the Constitution than John Roberts?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Better DEAD than Red and those seem to be the only two options now.
    Do you think you might be overreacting a tad? This is going to have little or no effect on your life.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    But my point is, here's a bunch of people who have been studying law and the Constitution for years and years.
    Irrelevant. Demonstrable incompetence is demonstrable incompetence.

    I don't care if you have a PHD in Mathematics from MIT. If someone else says 2+2=5, and you give your stamp of approval to that, you're too ignorant of mathematics to be performing your job.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    My take on things based on limited knowledge that may be incorrect.

    The individual mandate was ruled as a tax, and a tax cannot be struck down as unconstitutional until it is implemented (which it has not yet). .
    No AIA (the tax implementation thingy) has been ruled to not apply by the chief justice. The language in the act as a 'penalty' was sufficient for AIA to not apply, however it was still found valid under congress power to tax.

    Confusing no.
    Still reading the decision, so I may have been mistaken.

    Part of the law mandated that states expand Medicaid. I believe that this was struck down as unconstitutional.
    yes roughly correct,
    Because THE CHIEF JUSTICE finds the withholding—not the granting—of federal funds incompatible with the Spending Clause, Congress’ extension of Medicaid remains available to any State that affirms its willingness to participate.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    So I wonder what can't be a "tax" now. It seems to me like any time the government wishes to coerce an act (such as a purchase), all they have to do is put a steep fine on it and claim the fine is a "tax."

    So what am I missing here? What's the distinction?
    That's about right, and it has always been the case.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    so tell us what those like you are gonna do about it
    First thing will be renouncing my US Citizenship. Then I have other plans on what to do....

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Not by a million miles. In fact they estimate that very few people will be affected by the penalty -- which is what happened in MA.
    I LIVE IN MASSACHUSETTS. The Mass system runs a massive defecit every single year. It forces people who cannot afford insurance to purchase it, or face a fine on your taxes. Many of those people would actually be better off paying the fine than the premiums that they pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Well, you can do that, but then you'll need a green card to work here. Or you can be an illegal immigrant, that'd be an interesting twist.
    Why the hell should I keep working? What is the point? So I can pay taxes for even more crap I don't agree with and don't believe my relatives who fought and died to found this country believed in either? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    If you don't want to be called a racist, don't say racist things. I judge you on your words.
    Check out post no. 125. Don't violate the TOS by attacking me personally. That isn't permitted.

    Big victory for the African American Underclass. Huge defeat for the White Middle Class. The former group moves up the food chain and the latter group moves down the food chain.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    So I wonder what can't be a "tax" now. It seems to me like any time the government wishes to coerce an act (such as a purchase), all they have to do is put a steep fine on it and claim the fine is a "tax."

    So what am I missing here? What's the distinction?
    It's all semantics. When Tim Pawlenty was Governor of Minnesota he raised taxes on cigarettes. But he couldn't call it a "tax" because that would make Grover Norquist mad, so it was a "health impact fee." But it was a tax.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    From Scotusblog

    10:52
    Lyle: The rejection of the Commerce Clause and Nec. and Proper Clause should be understood as a major blow to Congress's authority to pass social welfare laws. Using the tax code -- especially in the current political environment -- to promote social welfare is going to be a very chancy proposition.
    10:53
    Lyle: Interesting, at least to scholars, that while the mandate and its attached penalty are a tax for purposes of its constitutionality, but not for the Anti-Injunction Act. If it were a tax for AIA purposes, this case would not have been decided re the mandate.
    Indeed this is a decision that has a little bit for everything, i guess.

    Confusing nonetheless

    It is a tax, no it isn't. John Stewart would go nuts over this.

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