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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1541
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Maybe there isn't. In that event, shouldn't we have a right to say "no, we're not buying that," and take our chances, even if that means opting out of ever receiving any medical attention even if we need it? At least we're living a free life in that scenario. Yes there are risks, but whatever, such is life, for all living things. Life can still be great even though you're not guaranteed survival. In fact you might enjoy your life once you embrace that you could die any day and that is the normal way of things...



    Health insurance is supposed to manage risk. You don't want to go broke paying for medical, and I don't either. But if we go broke paying for the insurance that's supposed to keep us from going broke, then you're absolutely right, there is no point.



    What's the use? There is no use. This is their mission. Make us poor enough to NEED them.
    I hope to hell that all those that are gloating about this crap ruling takes a good long hard look at my post. Because thanks to them and their savior they are now more than likely going to be paying for my life style for the rest of my life. They have only themselves to blame.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    I agree with you that should be the case in a perfect world. But that ignores the state of American political culture. There can be no peace between us. The political culture makes that impossible. Your side won a great victory today. But American politcal culture now requires that the well be so poisoned that your victory becomes pyrrhic. Neither one of us made these rules. But we can't change the rules. This death spiral can't be prevented.
    I wonder how many people felt the same way about Social Security and Medicare when they were passed by Democrats. Now they have become a ingrained part of our society, championed by both sides(up until recently at least). What makes you believe the HC bill is any different? How much do you want to bet that 10 or 15 years from now there is similar agreement that we are better off because of the reform?

    As bitter and sad as you sound, take solace in the fact that there are many more that are relieved and content with the decision. We are not at war with each other but we won't let you stand in our way forever.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 06-29-12 at 01:53 AM.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    One thing I've noticed about the debate over the ACA is that it isn't a usual political debate where we all look at the contents of the law and come to different conclusions as to how well it will work. Instead, what we're seeing is that most of the conservative opponents of the law actually don't even understand what it does. There is a HUGE information asymmetry between the supporters of the law (at least some of whom are quite well informed about it), and the opponents of the law (I've yet to see a single opponent in this thread who seems to understand the contents).
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-29-12 at 01:49 AM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I hope to hell that all those that are gloating about this crap ruling takes a good long hard look at my post. Because thanks to them and their savior they are now more than likely going to be paying for my life style for the rest of my life. They have only themselves to blame.
    If that is true, then we were likely to pay for it anyway. The changes are not great enough to be any other way.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If your family income is $26,000 and there are 4 people in your family, you will all be eligible for free Medicaid when the ACA takes effect (assuming your state participates in the expansion). It won't cost you a cent out of pocket.
    I don't make 26,000. I make 30,400.

    And yeah...thats still assuming that my state participates. Will it? I have no friggen clue and sure as hell won't count on it.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  6. #1546
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    One thing I've noticed about the debate over the ACA is that it isn't a usual political debate where we all look at the contents of the law and come to different conclusions as to how well it will work. Instead, what we're seeing is that most of the conservative opponents of the law actually don't even understand what it does. There is a HUGE information asymmetry between the supporters of the law (at least some of whom are quite well informed about it), and the opponents of the law (I've yet to see a single person in this thread who understands it and is legitimately opposed).
    Misinformation is a power weapon. It is ahrd to teach anyone anything they THINK they already know. BTW, that's true regardless of political persuassion.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Supreme Court justices can be whipped into a frenzy by right-wing pundits just like anyone else can. As much as we like to imagine that they live in a bubble where they are only concerned with the Constitution, they hear the same commentary as anyone else. Scalia, for example, was willing to brazenly disregard his own past rulings to overturn a policy he dislikes politically (Gonzalez v Raich), legally contorting himself to get the desired result.

    It is utterly inconceivable that if Mitt Romney had been elected president in 2008 and passed exactly the same bill (undoubtedly with much Republican support) that those 4 justices would have still ruled it unconstitutional...if anyone had even bothered litigating the case in the first place.
    Did you quote me on accident? This doesn't address anything I said. I haven't even bashed the individual mandate or Obama for flip-flopping (something I noticed you didn't even acknowledge). The Constitution matters to me and I think there should be limits on federal power. So sue me.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post

    You are just chomping at the bit for an all-out race war, aren't you? I love the barely-concealed excitement as you say you wish this weren't true.
    You're entitled to your opinion.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Not true. How is that possible. Explain to me how it's possible to have MORE people who are paid via taxes dollars than people who PAY those tax dollars to fund them.

    With your sophistry aside before wall mart the government was the the single largest employer. Now Wall mart has more employees.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    One thing I've noticed about the debate over the ACA is that it isn't a usual political debate where we all look at the contents of the law and come to different conclusions as to how well it will work. Instead, what we're seeing is that most of the conservative opponents of the law actually don't even understand what it does. There is a HUGE information asymmetry between the supporters of the law (at least some of whom are quite well informed about it), and the opponents of the law (I've yet to see a single opponent in this thread who seems to understand the contents).
    Yeah, that's it. Nobody could reasonably be concerned about the precedent this decision sets. It must be that we don't understand it.

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