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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Does $500 per person per year really seem that unreasonable to you? And if so, are you suggesting that the subsidy be increased? Because I could get on board with that.

    If you think that $500 is too much to spend on health insurance for an entire year, how on earth do you think they're going to be able to pay for an expensive medical bill?



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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    $2000/yr. when the average family policy runs about $15,000 seems like a pretty good benefit to me.
    Think about this for a minute. Does it even seem plausible? I mean the median income is like what around $50k which means half of the population makes that or less. IF they have insurance now it costs $15k (per you) AND the $2k is correct they will get a ~85% reduction in cost with PPACA. Where is all this money going to come from?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    At the end of the day, which it is, it was a good day for Americans.... we still have the 37th best healthcare system in the world, but at least we took a step forward.

    Attachment 67130111

    A good day. Many before Obama worked to move the ball down the field. Perhaps Obama doesn't get the TD of national healthcare, we we'll settle for the FG.


    Its now time to put this silliness behind us and move on to real issues; like the economy.
    Since this it tied permanently to the economy, I think not.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Maybe you missed this?
    Right, $2070 for a family of four...in other words $500 per person per year. That hardly seems unreasonable for a middle-class family. And in any case, I thought you were *against* the ACA? Are you actually arguing for more subsidies because you believe that it's the right thing to do, or are you merely vomiting up every criticism you can think of, and hoping that someone buys into one of them?

    This kind of ignorant tribal politics is what led to the odd spectacle of conservatives to pose as the defenders of Medicare when the ACA was working its way through Congress. It's what led to the odd spectacle of conservatives abandoning the individual mandate (for which they had spent the past 20 years laying the groundwork) as unconstitutional and socialist. And it's what now leads you to criticize the ACA for not being generous *enough* with subsidies. You don't actually believe what you're saying, so why should *I* believe what you're saying?

    But for what it's worth, I'd vote for your plan to provide even more subsidies to lower- and middle-class people for health care. Heck, I'd vote to give it to them for free.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-29-12 at 12:36 AM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I would not hold my breath on that........You gotta pay for all those 40,000,000 uninsured my left wing friend...
    you mean those "poor" people you are so concerned about? I bet the GOP has some compassionate conservatism left over somewhere. or was that conservative compassion?
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    Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    I love that far-right talking point on this is "See, it is a tax, it is a tax. He's raising taxes." They're all embracing a weak parsing of words to make a meaningless point.


    Hey Tea Party and Very-Conservatives:

    Explain this --


    If conservatism is about personal responsibility, then why should people NOT purchase health care if they can afford it? Why should people of means be allowed to just show up at the emergency room and get free health care?

    Do you want to pay the bill for a young married couple who would rather spend money on a nice new BMW than buy the minimum health coverage -- but they wrap that nice new BMW around a tree while touring Napa Valley. They were young and healthy and invincible, so why should they worry about health coverage? It's they're "right" to no be covered. Damn Obama and his socialism, now they have to be responsible citizens and postpone napa until they can really afford it. Damn Mitt Romney and the Heritage foundation for inventing and testing the individual mandate at the state level.

    With the GOP it seems that personal responsibility only applies to the unemployed people who got laid off their job--those bums need to get a job. But people with money can get a free ride in the emergency room.

    I await an explanation.
    Because, no matter how good an idea something is, or the public policy reasons behind a proposed legislation, none of that matters if the law is unconstitutional.

    I'm sure someone's already said this but there are far too many posts to read.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Right, $2070 for a family of four...in other words $500 per person per year. That hardly seems unreasonable for a middle-class family. And in any case, I thought you were *against* the ACA? Are you actually arguing for more subsidies because you believe that it's the right thing to do, or are you merely vomiting up every criticism you can think of, and hoping that someone buys into one of them?

    This kind of ignorant tribal politics is what led to the odd spectacle of conservatives to pose as the defenders of Medicare when the ACA was working its way through Congress. It's what led to the odd spectacle of conservatives abandoning the individual mandate (for which they had spent the past 20 years laying the groundwork) as unconstitutional and socialist. And it's what now leads you to criticize the ACA for not being generous *enough* with subsidies. You don't actually believe what you're saying, so why should *I* believe what you're saying?

    But for what it's worth, I'd vote for your plan to provide even more subsidies to lower- and middle-class people for health care. Heck, I'd vote to give it to them for free.
    $50,000 a year for a family of four is NOT middle class my friend. $500 a month each just may make the difference between those kids eating tonight or not. Your compassion is breathtaking.

    Public opinion of the health care law

    June 28, 2012 10:36 AM

    Since it was enacted over two years ago, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, President Obama's signature piece of legislation, has never been especially popular with the American public. Just 34 percent approve of the health care law, according to a CBS News/New York Times Poll released earlier this month, while 48 percent disapprove. Other recent polls also show more oppose the law than support it.

    Overall opinions of the health care law have barely wavered since its passage in March 2010, and support for it has never reached 50 percent in CBS News Polls. Back in May 2010, two months after it was passed, 43 percent of Americans approved of the law - that's the highest percentage to date.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...alth-care-law/
    I guess that's why Obama Care is so popular. The Democrats will finally be run out of DC in November.
    Last edited by Prof. Peabody; 06-29-12 at 12:46 AM.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Think about this for a minute. Does it even seem plausible? I mean the median income is like what around $50k which means half of the population makes that or less. IF they have insurance now it costs $15k (per you) AND the $2k is correct they will get a ~85% reduction in cost with PPACA. Where is all this money going to come from?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resour...s01282011a.pdf

    Nothing in there about advancing premium payments.

    http://web.archive.org/web/201010272...iumCredits.pdf

    Old link that was taken down for obvious reasons.



    LOLOLOLOL! A family of 4 attempting to survive on less than $50,000 a year will still have to cough up $2070 a year or $172 a month. I'm sure they'll vote for Obama in November.
    my son teaches High School science in AZ, has been for about 12 years, he has 3 kids....his school district pays for his health care insuralnce, but charges almost $12K per year to cover medical for his wife and kids. He got his own from a company outside his employer for about half that. Their annual deductible per dependent is $1500, and his oldest child has been dealing with an inoperable brain tumor for about 6 years, so her deductible is a given. So, they are paying $7500 right from the start, before anyone else gets sick. And of course if they do, they each have a deductible to meet before the insurance company starts paying....
    .
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Think about this for a minute. Does it even seem plausible? I mean the median income is like what around $50k which means half of the population makes that or less. IF they have insurance now it costs $15k (per you) AND the $2k is correct they will get a ~85% reduction in cost with PPACA. Where is all this money going to come from?
    First of all, the poverty line for a family of four is $27,000 so the subsidy kicks in at about $35,000 for a family of four. Because more employers will be required to provide insurance for low-wage employees, the number covered by subsidies will be less than you might think. The money for the subsidies comes from penalties, taxes and fees. According to the CBO the Act will lower deficits at the end of the day.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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