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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    I'm not going to bother reading nearly 1500 posts, but someone tell me if I get how this thread has gone, correct:

    Many of those on the right are whining and crying and making idiotic claims that this will destroy the US.
    Many of those on the left are laughing and rejoicing and making idiotic claims that this will save the US.

    How'd I do?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You are either a really, really bad liar, or just an easy dupe to liberal propaganda...



    and the National Review article I posted are from as far back as two weeks ago...Please re read.

    IPAB, Obamacare

    Now stop lying.
    That particular source often draws inaccurate conclusions. Any suggestion of rationing or death panels would be an inaccurate conclusion.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I'm not going to bother reading nearly 1500 posts, but someone tell me if I get how this thread has gone, correct:

    Many of those on the right are whining and crying and making idiotic claims that this will destroy the US.
    Many of those on the left are laughing and rejoicing and making idiotic claims that this will save the US.

    How'd I do?
    Pretty damn good!! See why do we read these threads.

    You did leave out that a few of us think the ruling was fine, we won't die, but we should go back to work and try to structure something better without going back to where we were.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Again for clarity.

    Folks making more than 133% of the Federal Poverty Level and you pay for insurance or pay the $600 a year tax. A single person making over $14,856 would have to pay for insurance (on $14,856, really?) or $600 tax.
    Incorrect. A person making just above this dollar amount would pay no more than 3-4% of their income toward insurance premiums. In other words, they could actually buy a policy for $600 a year.

    A married couple with no kids making over $20,122 a year would be required to pay for insurance for 2 or the tax for 2. A family of 4, 2 adults and 2 kids making over $30,656 a year would have to buy insurance for 4 or pay double the tax for the adults.
    In both of these cases, families earning just above the poverty line would have their health care subsidized to the point that they would only be paying 3-4% of their income toward premiums each year.

    You claim up to 400% subsidies, do you have any proof that comes from a reliable source and not a "kook" blogspot?
    I have a source from some kooky bloggers called the Department of HHS, Department of Treasury, and Congressional Research Service:
    http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resour...s01282011a.pdf
    http://web.archive.org/web/201010272...iumCredits.pdf
    http://www.treasury.gov/press-center...BFactSheet.PDF

    Sigh. Is it really too much to ask that people actually learn the contents of the law before they go running their mouths about how horrible it is? I mean, it's one thing to disagree with the Supreme Court's interpretation of "tax," or to think that some provision of the law is bad policy. It's another thing to not even know the contents of the law. Sadly, this seems to be par for the course with the Affordable Care Act's most vocal opponents.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Pretty damn good!! See why do we read these threads.

    You did leave out that a few of us think the ruling was fine, we won't die, but we should go back to work and try to structure something better without going back to where we were.
    I figured there were a few of those, but I also figured they got lost in the stupidity being spewed by the hacks from both sides.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #1486
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Incorrect. A person making just above this dollar amount would pay no more than 3-4% of their income toward insurance premiums. In other words, they could actually buy a policy for $600 a year.



    In both of these cases, families earning just above the poverty line would have their health care subsidized to the point that they would only be paying 3-4% of their income toward premiums each year.



    I have a source from some kooky bloggers called the Department of HHS, Department of Treasury, and Congressional Research Service:
    http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resour...s01282011a.pdf
    http://web.archive.org/web/201010272...iumCredits.pdf
    http://www.treasury.gov/press-center...BFactSheet.PDF

    Sigh. Is it really too much to ask that people actually learn the contents of the law before they go running their mouths about how horrible it is? I mean, it's one thing to disagree with the Supreme Court's interpretation of "tax," or to think that some provision of the law is bad policy. It's another thing to not even know the contents of the law. Sadly, this seems to be par for the course with the Affordable Care Act's most vocal opponents.
    I'll look your links over, but they come fro the same administration that assured us repeatedly this isn't a tax then has their attorneys argue it is which is what the SCOTUS decided. How believable are they less than a kook blog I'd say.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    a lot a low income earners won't be eligible for subsidies..... if their employer offers a qualified plan, they gotta take it or pay the tax.... their premiums are not subsidized.
    subsidies come into play when the employer doesn't have qualified plans to offer.
    What's your point? "Qualified plans" will only be qualified in the first place if they meet certain criteria regarding affordability and coverage. So yes, if they can get their health insurance from their employer, they have to do that. The point is that low-income earners will not be in a situation where they have no choice but to incur some tax liability they didn't have before...they'll either be covered by Medicaid, or through their employer, or they'll get subsidies to purchase individual policies on the health insurance exchange, or in the worst case scenario they'll get a financial hardship exemption.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-28-12 at 11:59 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Many of those on the right are whining and crying and making idiotic claims that this will destroy the US.
    Also there are a few amusing threats to leave the country and move to (fill in the name of some other country with even more statist health care).
    Are you coming to bed?
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    I'll look your links over, but they come fro the same administration that assured us repeatedly this isn't a tax then has their attorneys argue it is which is what the SCOTUS decided. How believable are they less than a kook blog I'd say.
    This is just a description of the basic contents of the law, and the regulations that HHS has established. Are you suggesting that they're lying about the actual contents of the Affordable Care Act? What possible purpose would that serve?

    If it's that easy to pull the wool over people's eyes, maybe Obama could just change the word "million" to "billion" somewhere on the Department of Education's website, and our schools will suddenly have more money.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-28-12 at 11:57 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You are either a really, really bad liar, or just an easy dupe to liberal propaganda...

    The Independent Payment Advisory Board, or IPAB, is a fifteen-member United States Government agency created in 2010 by sections 3403 and 10320 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which has the explicit task of achieving specified savings in Medicare without affecting coverage or quality.[1] Under previous and current law, changes to Medicare payment rates and program rules are recommended by MedPAC but require an act of Congress to take effect. The new system grants IPAB the authority to make changes to the Medicare program with the Congress being given the power to overrule the agency's decisions.

    Independent Payment Advisory Board - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    and the National Review article I posted are from as far back as two weeks ago...Please re read.

    IPAB, Obamacare

    Now stop lying.
    Holy ****, mac ... now you're arming yourself with wikipedia links???



    You don't know when to quit, do ya?

    Sections 3403 and 10320 of the bill Obama signed were not about the supposed "death panels." It was section 1233 of H.R. 3200 that you're thinking of ...


    SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.

    • (a) Medicare-


      • (1) IN GENERAL- Section 1861 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended--


        • (A) in subsection (s)(2)--


          • (i) by striking `and' at the end of subparagraph (DD);


          • (ii) by adding `and' at the end of subparagraph (EE); and


          • (iii) by adding at the end the following new subparagraph:


      • `(FF) advance care planning consultation (as defined in subsection (hhh)(1));'; and


        • (B) by adding at the end the following new subsection:



    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...Ukd1Q:e540198:


    And that section was yanked from the bill that Obama signed. How much clearer can I get?

    Yet more evidence that you have no idea what in the hell you're talking about.

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