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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1321
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Originally Posted by Removable Mind

    KY Jelly, anyone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    ..sorry, that isn't covered.
    Oh it will be...but not by insurance.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    I can't read 132 pages. Has anybody posted the interview obama did where he swore up down and sideways this mandate was not a tax?
    GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: ...during the campaign. Under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don't. How is that not a tax?
    OBAMA: Well, hold on a second, George. Here - here's what's happening. You and I are both paying $900, on average - our families - in higher premiums because of uncompensated care. Now what I've said is that if you can't afford health insurance, you certainly shouldn't be punished for that.
    That's just piling on. If, on the other hand, we're giving tax credits, we've set up an exchange, you are now part of a big pool, we've driven down the costs, we've done everything we can and you actually can afford health insurance, but you've just decided, you know what, I want to take my chances. And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have to pay for the emergency room care, that's ...
    STEPHANOPOULOS: That may be, but it's still a tax increase.
    OBAMA: No. That's not true, George. The - for us to say that you've got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I'm not covering all the costs.
    STEPHANOPOULOS: But it may be fair, it may be good public policy ...
    OBAMA: No, but - but, George, you - you can't just make up that language and decide that that's called a tax increase. Any ...
    STEPHANOPOULOS: Here's the ...
    OBAMA: What - what - if I - if I say that right now your premiums are going to be going up by 5 or 8 or 10 percent next year and you say well, that's not a tax increase; but, on the other hand, if I say that I don't want to have to pay for you not carrying coverage even after I give you tax credits that make it affordable, then ...
    STEPHANOPOULOS: I - I don't think I'm making it up. Merriam Webster's Dictionary: Tax - "a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes."
    OBAMA: George, the fact that you looked up Merriam's Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you're stretching a little bit right now. Otherwise, you wouldn't have gone to the dictionary to check on the definition. I mean what ...
    STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, no, but ...
    OBAMA: ... what you're saying is ...
    STEPHANOPOULOS: I wanted to check for myself. But your critics say it is a tax increase.
    OBAMA: My critics say everything is a tax increase. My critics say that I'm taking over every sector of the economy. You know that. Look, we can have a legitimate debate about whether or not we're going to have an individual mandate or not, but ...
    STEPHANOPOULOS: But you reject that it's a tax increase?
    OBAMA: I absolutely reject that notion.


    Read more: Obama on whether individual mandate is a tax: 'It is absolutely not' | Fox News
    What the Hell, I will post it anyway.
    Last edited by sawyerloggingon; 06-28-12 at 09:05 PM.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    So. Without even reading this conversation, I'm guessing it's gone something like the following:

    -Liberals come in and triumph that sanity, logic, and common sense have prevailed for once.
    -Conservatives come in and say that Big Government has yet again defended Big Government.
    -Ensuing constitutional debate breaks out.
    -Liberals ask conservatives if they are okay with millions being uninsured.
    -Conservatives dodge the question and claim that the Affordable Care Act, which they affectionately refer to as "Obamacare," will destroy America as we know it.
    -Ensuing economics debate breaks out.
    -Liberals point out that the Affordable Care Act is very similar to the health care plan that Romney signed into law.
    -Conservatives counter that with their explanations.
    -Things get heated. Real heated. (As evidenced by the FIVE, count 'em, FIVE thread warnings.)

    In no particular order, of course.

    AmIDoingItRite?
    LOL...You're about right.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Imagine my surprise to see there's nothing there which confirms your claim ...



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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm sure this will get lost amongst the thousands of post in this thread, but here's something about the ruling I don't think people have yet to catch on to.

    Where the Anti-Injunction Act applies, if you listened to oral arguments you'd know that the SC asked who would be responsible for enforcing the law should an individual bring suit against the PPACA once he has to pay the tax penalty. The Justices all argued that such a matter really should be handled by the tax courts, but felt strongly that such suits would fall on the SC. None wanted to take on such litigation fearing that a constant stream of such suits would only bog down the SC. Justice Robert's ruling, therefore, accomplished three things:

    1) It ensured that the SC did not appear partisan. Consider for a moment how deep "one-party rule" runs within the Republican party - state legislatures, state Governors, the House of Rep and a slight under representation in the Senate and the presumptive Conservative SC. If you view this as an unprecedented power grab by a single party and then recall how obstructionist the Republican party has been these last 3 years, Justice Roberts essentially saved his party from a massive public outcry.

    2) Removed the argument that the Liberals would continue to lean on the commerce clause to change or implement laws through the SC as they saw fit. Considering that no opinion favored the individual mandate through the prism of the commerce clause, Justice Robert rendered this argument null and void.

    3) Removed any chance of a suit coming before the SC by individuals making the claim that they have been harmed by paying the tax penalty from the health care law. And if such a suit does find its way into the federal judicial system, it will be stopped and adjudicated in fededal tax court, not the Supreme Court.

    Bottom Line: Justice Roberts "found" a get-out-of-legalism free card for his party. You may hate his ruling and disagree with his opinion, but I'm convinced that high powered Conservatives are privately giving him high-5's.
    i've seen a few arguments in my internet travels that kinda said the same thing.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I can't read 132 pages. Has anybody posted the interview obama did where he swore up down and sideways this mandate was not a tax?
    We're not telling.

    You want to know, read the thread.


    And yes, that weak feeble parsing of words argument was made. Tax, penalty...

    You know what else we posted while you weren't reading.

    Last edited by hazlnut; 06-28-12 at 09:06 PM.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    if there are no tax increases.. how is the government going to pay for it?...
    it's a couple of hundred billion a year in increased costs.... they gotta pay for it somehow.
    Fear not...we'll just put it on Sheik Yerbuti's tax tab....

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    We're not telling.

    You want to know, read the thread.
    LMAO, I edited my post and put the intertview on, it is worth repeating

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Oh it will be...but not by insurance.
    yeah, lube isn't covered by the government minimum plan ( knowing them, it's on the list to be banned)... but contraceptives are free, if that makes ya feel any better.
    ya might get ****ed, but you won't get pregnant

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post

    AmIDoingItRite?
    Kinda, but no. What it mainly is is people understanding that the law was upheld as a tax and leftists claiming it still isn't a tax.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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