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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

  1. #1011
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Depends on you mean by that. He would likely have us (believers) give to the common good, to help others.
    And so you should, just as I do - on your own dime.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    First he told me the wonderful HC bill was going to help the "poorest of the poor", now he's realized these folks will stay on Medicare. It took me a while but he finally said the poorest of the poor weren't gonna get anything from this bill. They'll still be on the govt dole.
    The good news is that the vast majority will benefit from the bill in many ways. That went right over your head I guess.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

    Quote Originally Posted by vendur View Post
    By donation, not by theft.
    There's no theft going on. And to the believer, it is a commandment and not a suggestion (contrary to popular sentiment).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The good news is that the vast majority will benefit from the bill in many ways. That went right over your head I guess.
    Any actual data to back up such a claim?
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What "new power"? Roberts' decision was very narrow, and simply reaffirmed the federal government's power to levy a tax. That power has existed under our Constitution since, umm, always.
    Which means Obamacare raised taxes. New taxes equals raised taxes....on the lower and low middle class.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    And so you should, just as I do - on your own dime.
    I do. But that wasn't the question. The question was what would Jesus do?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Article 1, section 8: "Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises"

    Federalist papers where 1 or 2 guys opinion, not the law. Constitution = law.
    So. This has now been extended to mean that taxes may be punitive (something new) to punish private transactional inactivity.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, not always. Before Madison v Marbury established precedent, even Jefferson did not think the court had the power.
    I was referring to the power to levy a tax. That is a power of Congress, not the Supreme Court. And it has always had that power; it's explicitly spelled out in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.

    Quite simply, if you read the federalist, or any of Madison's writings of the time, the SCOTUS was not to be a "co-equal" branch of government, but rather a referee between the Executive and the Judiciary.
    I assume you mean the executive and LEGISLATURE? Even if that's true it's a moot point, because both the legislature and the executive supported the Affordable Care Act. If they didn't, then the ACA wouldn't even exist and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    That aside, what this decision does is to make a new right for the federal government to tax private transactional inactivity.
    No, the Supreme Court merely affirmed that this falls within Congress' power to tax, much like it gives you a tax credit if you buy solar panels (i.e. taxing you if you don't buy them).

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative
    Let’s not play dumb here. Nearly all constitutional scholars
    Bloomberg surveyed 21 top legal scholars last week; 19 of them felt that the individual mandate was constitutional. As did 2 prominent conservative federal judges who actually heard the case, and are (were?) on the short list to be the Supreme Court picks for the next Republican president. As did the Republican-appointed Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

    (and nearly 75% of Americans polled)
    I could give a damn whether the American people think something is constitutional. The American people do not have an informed opinion; most of them have never read the Constitution, and many of them don't even know what the Constitution does.

    It is certainly a new use of power not previously used, and I think all you cheerleaders would be well served to wait and see how corporate ran government uses this new power in the future before waving the pom poms further.
    If you're worried about a corporate-run government, then a public health care option and/or single-payer is still on the table. By all means, press your luck if you like.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I do. But that wasn't the question. The question was what would Jesus do?
    Well now, Jesus doesn't address the question - it was out of his mission, his wheelhouse. He does say we should render up to Ceaser what is Ceaser's.

    And Kandahar, you were correct. Sorry, I did mean the Executive and the Judiciary. However, that was just a historical reference since the court has been a co-equal branch of government since they took the power through precedence with Madison v Marbury.
    Last edited by clownboy; 06-28-12 at 06:01 PM.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Which means Obamacare raised taxes. New taxes equals raised taxes....on the lower and low middle class.
    Only in the broadest of interpretations. If everyone buys insurance, there is no tax.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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