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Thread: Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

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    re: Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights' - Yahoo! News



    Is there any question that Jimmy Carter has either an agenda or is a loon?
    Can you dispute him on the basis of his argument rather than making a personal attack?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    re: Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Yeah, but this is Americah! No one criticizes Americah!
    But it IS criticizing Obama, so what's holding everyone back?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    re: Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

    I have mixed views on the former President's op-ed.

    On the issue of FISA and detentions, I generally agree with him. First, the FISA framework for wiretapping is adequate. One should need reasonable evidence before proceeding with a wiretap. If such evidence does not exist, one is more likely than not wasting resources in a very low probability of finding some incriminating evidence. At the same time, privacy is eroded on account of the watered-down standard for wiretapping. I realize some would make the argument that perhaps there's a small chance that some actual terrorist might not be caught. However, the same exists in all cases. There has long been a presumption of innocence. No society can ever be risk free.

    In terms of detentions of non-combatants, again I believe evidence is important. If one has evidence that an individual is involved in some way with acts of terrorism, then one should proceed with the appropriate judicial process (probably military tribunals in the case of suspects captured overseas). If a non-combatant suspect is detained, allowing a reasonable window of time to collect evidence would be all right. But detaining someone in cases where no evidence is available should not be acceptable. In this case, I'm talking about non-combatants. Combantants, by their actions, are in a different class and a legal framework exists for dealing with them.

    Finally, I disagree with the former President on the drone strikes. The proper threshold is not zero civilian casualties or no drone strikes. The operative legal requirement under U.S. obligations under the Geneva Conventions is to avoid harm to civilians that would be excessive relative to the military advantage expected to be obtained.

    I do believe that the U.S. needs to compare actual civilian casualties with expected ones to determine whether its estimates going into the operations have been reasonable. The U.S. should incorporate this information into future planning. For example, let's say the U.S. in the past year expected a given number of civilian casulties per operation, but actual civilian casualties were 50% higher. Then, that 50% increase should be applied to all future operations. That might mean some operations would need to be canceled, because the expected civilian casualties would be excessive relative to the expected military advantage. The numbers--forecast vs. actual--could be refined after each operation with a statistically relevant period of time used for the overall projection.

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    re: Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Well I guess Obama doesn't deserve a second term.
    On this? hell no, but he has made it better.. under Bush it was far far far worse. But on their own grading scale, no American politician presently running for office deserves a first nor a second term.
    PeteEU

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    re: Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Is there any question that Jimmy Carter has either an agenda or is a loon?
    I vote loon.

    Now I will read the rest of the thread and probably have a good laugh at people that will defend one of the worst presidents we have ever had, showing their partisanship...
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    re: Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    On this? hell no, but he has made it better.. under Bush it was far far far worse.
    Uh, the Carter claim seemed to have a basis of drone attacks, in which case, no, Obama has NOT made it better, he has upped such attacks:

    Under Obama, an emerging global apparatus for drone killing - The Washington Post
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    re: Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

    Carter has a long history of supporting terror organizations like Hamas against Israel, he has also had a history of projecting some fictitious guilt of being American.

    Maybe he is sad that Obama is overtaking his crown as the Chamberlin of our times, and is trying desperately to make sure that his legacy of stupidity is carried on.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    re: Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Carter has a long history of supporting terror organizations like Hamas against Israel, he has also had a history of projecting some fictitious guilt of being American.

    Maybe he is sad that Obama is overtaking his crown as the Chamberlin of our times, and is trying desperately to make sure that his legacy of stupidity is carried on.

    j-mac


    . . . . that's funny!

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    re: Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Carter has a long history of supporting terror organizations like Hamas against Israel, he has also had a history of projecting some fictitious guilt of being American.

    Maybe he is sad that Obama is overtaking his crown as the Chamberlin of our times, and is trying desperately to make sure that his legacy of stupidity is carried on.

    j-mac
    Ahh another typical right wing attack when you dont like the facts... attack attack attack!
    PeteEU

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    re: Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

    Carter is remembered for being an absolute failure as potus. He has slowly but surely been losing his mind from the pressure of being considered one of, if not THE worst president we ever had. Nothing he says surprises me anymore, he is just a pathetic old man lashing out at everyone as he sinks farther and farther into his black hole of despair and shame.

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