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The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

Misterveritis said:
Governments do not create wealth.
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Rich people also do not create wealth - they just amass wealth created by others. Such wealth is typically used to control the world around them, including their fellow man. Most millionaires don't care what damage they might do to the environment or their fellow man as long as they get what they want. A millionaire can do more damage than a man with a machine gun. A few bankers and a couple of people slapping false ratings on financial instruments recently proved this.

Misterveritis said:
For you it is all about dominance and control.
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A conservative says this?!?!? :lamo
 
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Matt Foley said:
You know even in a Libertarian Paradise where gubment only maintains a 20 person Navy, by default Government is doing stuff that isn't suppose to be profitable. That's why it is gubment, it's the very function of gubment, to do stuff that isn't profitable or less profitable.
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Too bad that isn't what this corrupt government is doing.

We could eliminate the education department, the environmental protection agency and another dozen other extra-constitutional departments and agencies without eliminating a single Navy ship, a single Air Force aircraft, a single Marine or a single soldier.

Nice diversion though. Not actually. I am just trying to be polite.
 
Misterveritis said:
Too bad that isn't what this corrupt government is doing.

We could eliminate the education department, the environmental protection agency and another dozen other extra-constitutional departments and agencies without eliminating a single Navy ship, a single Air Force aircraft, a single Marine or a single soldier.

Nice diversion though. Not actually. I am just trying to be polite.
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I would not call such a position as explicated above, "Conservative".

Of course, the right in America has demonstrated one thing during the past 40+ years that it is very good at - redefining words and terms.

Eliminate a government department that does try to improve education in a nation that is already trailing the rest of the world on educational outcomes, yay, more functional illiterates that are easier to fool, fewer of those 'others' taking places in universities that really belong to the right sort of people.

Eliminate a government department so we can go back to the days of rivers catching fire, of toxins in our drinking water and food, back to the days when industrial smog killed thousands - yep, no problem with that.

The total lack of knowledge of real consequences, or maybe it is refusal to admit that tightly held beliefs are simply nonsense, seems to motivate far too many on the right today.
 
Somerville said:
I would not call such a position as explicated above, "Conservative".
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Of course you wouldn't. You are a socialist. You cannot comprehend so simple a concept as constitutionally limited government. For you and others like you limits of power are anathema to you. That is why you have the heart of a tyrant.
 
Misterveritis said:
Of course you wouldn't. You are a socialist. You cannot comprehend so simple a concept as constitutionally limited government. For you and others like you limits of power are anathema to you. That is why you have the heart of a tyrant.
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I do luv me the way the "conservative" declares his psionic ability to read my mind and to make such positive statements about my capacity, or lack thereof, to understand "so simple a concept".

I deny that "limits ON power are anathema" to myself and others who have similar political/economic views to me. We simply appear to have a wider understanding of just which institutions have "power" in our modern economy. For myself I believe that those who would deny healthcare, education and opportunity to all citizens are the ones with the hearts of tyrants.
 
Somerville said:
I do luv me the way the "conservative" declares his psionic ability to read my mind and to make such positive statements about my capacity, or lack thereof, to understand "so simple a concept".

I deny that "limits ON power are anathema" to myself and others who have similar political/economic views to me. We simply appear to have a wider understanding of just which institutions have "power" in our modern economy. For myself I believe that those who would deny healthcare, education and opportunity to all citizens are the ones with the hearts of tyrants.
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In other words you have completely agreed with my assessment of you.

Where there is no right to private property there is no justice. Where there is no justice there is tyranny. You have the heart of a tyrant.

Look at your words. Those who would deny...that means those who will not give their property up to be used by others... instead of what it should mean that those who would prevent others from using the wealth the others create for their purposes.

You are a socialist. You are unable to comprehend the prison you occupy as it is of your own making.
 
poweRob said:
A funny thing to watch in these anti-immigrant folk who want a massive wall and instant deportation of 12 million people is that they are also generally bitching about how the workforce is going to be too small to support the baby boomer's social security debts. They are practically shooting themselves in the foot on an answer.
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Well, having illegals here doesn't help the baby boomers. Having employed taxpayers would help.
 
mac said:
Well, having illegals here doesn't help the baby boomers. Having employed taxpayers would help.
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Dead wrong. Having illegals is actually BETTER for the boomers because many of them pay payroll taxes but can't receive benefits.
 
AdamT said:
Dead wrong. Having illegals is actually BETTER for the boomers because many of them pay payroll taxes but can't receive benefits.
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So parasites, like AdamT, really like this deal, they THINK that they get extra tax money for free, just like taxing "the rich" at whole lot. More people to take from, that actually work, to give AdamT and his liberal entitled freinds more to waste on "nice" gov't handouts. Sure beats spending any of YOUR money; right AdamT? AdamT must think that "boomers" are silly, old geezers that will truely appreciate people slaving away for their rich liberal masters, since it helps replace some SS money being blown off (since some pay no FIT and would otherwise not know the kindness of their liberal king), via "temporary" withholding holidays, to celebrate the "histroric" kindness of king Barack. Yes he can!
 
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Misterveritis said:
Of course you wouldn't. You are a socialist. You cannot comprehend so simple a concept as constitutionally limited government. For you and others like you limits of power are anathema to you. That is why you have the heart of a tyrant.
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What's wrong with having the heart of a tyrant? Sure beats having the heart of a vegetable, which is weird when you think about it cause plants don't have hearts.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
So parasites, like AdamT, really like this deal, they THINK that they get extra tax money for free, just like taxing "the rich" at whole lot.
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Parasites, eh? :lol: I'd wager that I paid more taxes this year than you paid in the last five.

But that's beside the point. By pointing out the FACT that illegals create a net entitlement surplus I was not endorsing illegal immigration. Obviously it creates many problems.
 
AdamT said:
Parasites, eh? :lol: I'd wager that I paid more taxes this year than you paid in the last five.
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A legitimate point Adam, and just FWIW I've never considered that you might be a "parasite" from what you posted. I disagree with much of it, but you certainly do not come off as a slacker or someone who takes advantage.

AdamT said:
But that's beside the point. By pointing out the FACT that illegals create a net entitlement surplus I was not endorsing illegal immigration. Obviously it creates many problems.
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I don't believe that's true, the difference between services used and tax paid (typically under someone else's name) leaves us with anywhere near a net entitlement surplus. And it merits repeating - illegals do not pay taxes under their own names - they do not have social security numbers, at least not their own. In fact, see how happy you are about it when some illegal, or group of them, chooses your social to use. It's happened to me, and it's a nightmare to untangle with the IRS.
 
AdamT said:
Dead wrong. Having illegals is actually BETTER for the boomers because many of them pay payroll taxes but can't receive benefits.
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How does an illegal with no ssn or tax id pay payroll taxes?
 
Matt Foley said:
What's wrong with having the heart of a tyrant? Sure beats having the heart of a vegetable, which is weird when you think about it cause plants don't have hearts.
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Celery and artichokes do. ;)
 
American said:
Where do their SS taxes go?
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washdcna.gif
 
teamosil said:
Same way everybody else does. Their employer deducts it and mails it to the IRS.
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And where does it go?

Aren't you overlooking that most illegals are getting paid under the table?
 
teamosil said:
I'm not sure actually. Either the social security trust fund (probably) or the general budget.
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How can they pay without a SSN?
 
mac said:
And where does it go?

Aren't you overlooking that most illegals are getting paid under the table?
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Many are being paid under the table. Would you support a penalty on the employer of such persons of $1,000.00 per day per worker if the employer is caught?
 
mac said:
And where does it go?
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I'm not sure. Either into the social security trust fund or the general budget. Why? You could probably find out with some googling if you're interested.

mac said:
Aren't you overlooking that most illegals are getting paid under the table?
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Yeah, no doubt. Some of their employers pay the payroll taxes thinking their employee is legal, others pay them knowing that they are illegal just to minimize their legal exposure, and then some pay them under the table.

American said:
How can they pay without a SSN?
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The employer pays payroll taxes, not the individual. So they just send the check in each month or whatever with a list of social security numbers. Some of them check out, others don't, but the IRS doesn't send money back unless the employer says they made a mistake or something and even then it is like pulling teeth.
 
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