Page 8 of 60 FirstFirst ... 6789101858 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 593

Thread: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

  1. #71
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Gina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    31,923

    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I think you are placing an outcome on the law, not me.
    You asked does the law stop them from stopping white people? I asked you, are you pretending they would be stopping white people merely for suspicion of being here illegally?
    Last edited by Gina; 06-25-12 at 02:26 PM.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  2. #72
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So what is the recourse when the Fed refuses to enforce a law? Has it not then violated the Constitution? The state of Arizona has asked for help, and the federal govt refuses to provide it. If the fed govt wants to sit in the driver's seat, then it needs to drive.
    The Feds are not refusing to enforce the law. They are enforcing it now more than they were under the previous administration. The number of illegals is falling and border state crime has been falling for some time.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  3. #73
    Sage
    Somerville's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    On an island. Not that one!
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:23 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    9,819

    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So what is the recourse when the Fed refuses to enforce a law? Has it not then violated the Constitution? The state of Arizona has asked for help, and the federal govt refuses to provide it. If the fed govt wants to sit in the driver's seat, then it needs to drive.
    THIS is a nonsensical statement of belief unsupported by reality.

    ON the section of the AZ law that was upheld by the Supreme Court, the "papers please" bit - there is one major aspect that I don't see mentioned here. The AZ police are no longer allowed to detain someone without prior federal approval of such detention.

    Also, nobody has mentioned the fact that Native Americans have also been stopped and questioned under this AZ law - are they also "illegals" or do they just look like they are?
    ďAnd I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.Ē
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  4. #74
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Gina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    31,923

    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    THIS is a nonsensical statement of belief unsupported by reality.

    ON the section of the AZ law that was upheld by the Supreme Court, the "papers please" bit - there is one major aspect that I don't see mentioned here. The AZ police are no longer allowed to detain someone without prior federal approval of such detention.

    Also, nobody has mentioned the fact that Native Americans have also been stopped and questioned under this AZ law - are they also "illegals" or do they just look like they are?
    I hadn't mentioned the aspect of Native Americans, but I have Native Americans who are very close relatives as well. They are mistaken for Hispanic all the time and could easily be stopped under this law. Another reason this law is so upsetting to me.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  5. #75
    Sage
    Ontologuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    5,516

    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Yes and 20 million American citizens should not be suspect due to a broad resemblance to those here illegally.
    There are roughly 20 million illegals in America. Are you saying that for each one of them there will be one similarly-looking American citizen detained in the search for the 20 million illegals?

    I believe that's a gross exaggeration, because we all know, as I previously posted, looks are just one of the descriptives, a beginning point to continue observing for one or two other narrowing-it-down criteria prior to momentarily detaining the individual(s) (over-use of non-English, lack of English comprehension, loitering near Home Depot, loitering near warehouse districts, driving junkers, cramming cars, not wearing seatbelts ...) the list goes on and on and on, that will hone in on likely perpetrators, eliminating American citizens from the list.

    So the number of real Americans momentarily detained will be teeny tiny compared to your gross exaggeration.

    But you state " ... should not be suspect ... ". What do you mean by "should not"? "Should not" under what "discipline", suspect profiling? Not even! "Should not" under some political/party ideology? Meaningless. What's this "should not" and what is your foundational argument for it?

    20 million illegals have violated the laws of American citizens, trespassing, identity-forging, and job-stealing -- we should do all we can to apprehend them, I mean, if justice for all Americans is of value.

    I doubt the few true Americans who get momentarily detained will be anything but thankful that law enforcement is on the job.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    You are arguing with me, but yet you seem to agree with me. I don't condone it. So please pursue someone else with that point.
    Your implied obfuscation is rejected.

    I don't at all "seem to agree with you" -- where do you get that?

    You then contradict my obvious position saying you "don't condon it [detaining American citizens while searching for illegals]", while I'm quite fine with the teeny, tiny percentage of time that will truly happen.

    As for "pursuing" someone else with that point, I'm not "pursuing" anyone, though I find your term revealing, considering the discussion content. I'm merely debating the matter with someone of an obviously differing opinion.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  6. #76
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,689

    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yes, they pretty much kicked AZ in the balls. The only reason they upheld the one section is that they didn't see a conflict with federal law. And of course there's still a good chance the one remaining section could fall on other grounds.
    That 'one section'...which is the section that people continued to protest? Which is the section that democrats were so upset about? Which is the section that people here discussed. Oh yeah...the...one they upheld. Huh.

    And you didnt quite explain how it is a 'win' for anyone considering the fed refuses to enforce illegal immigration while leaving the states on the hook to deal with the mess...no suprise there.

  7. #77
    Guru
    Smeagol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Seen
    02-19-17 @ 11:35 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,147

    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    I have never gotten the AZ immigration law. What is the purpose for arresting someone? Because they are suspected of committing a crime and its the FIRST STEP in a process to hold the suspected criminal accountable, right? The state of Arizona has absolutely no legal structure in place to indict, try and carry out immigration law violations sentences. The state AZ prosecutors did not and cannot have trials for people expected to illegal immigration. So what do they do with the people they arrest, if they are here illegally in the first place? ? Catch and release anybody who looks Mexican. Arrest them, make them spend the night in jail then let them go in the morning. The AZ courts can't hold a trial on immigration law violations. They can't deport anyone since state governments have no relationship with Mexican or whatever country counterparts. All this law did IMHO was make police harassment of Hispanics legal and told the fastest growing minority in America who will eventually be citizens as well as their children, grand-children and great-grand-children to never vote Republican under any circumstance. Gotta be the dumbest law passed in America in my lifetime.
    Last edited by Smeagol; 06-25-12 at 02:56 PM.

  8. #78
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    No.

    I put "White" in quotes in specific reference to Gina's earlier attempt to create a false dichotomy in the discussion.
    Gotcha. thanks for clearing that up.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  9. #79
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,689

    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    An irony of the Supreme Court’s ruling Monday on Arizona’s immigration law is that the chief part President Obama and his top advisers complained about is the one part the court upheld.

    As Arizona was debating the law, Mr. Obama, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and other top officials said it would lead to racial profiling by allowing police to stop and demand the legal status of those they suspected to be in the country illegally.

    But that’s the one part of the law the Supreme Court upheld unanimously, with the justices saying they will give police a chance to see if they can implement the law properly without violating civil rights.

    “There is a basic uncertainty about what the law means and how it will be enforced. At this stage, without the benefit of a definitive interpretation from the state courts, it would be inappropriate to assume [that section] will be construed in a way that creates a conflict with federal law,” Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote for the majority.

    The law had four chief components. Three sections that set up state criminal penalties for immigration violations were struck down in the 5-3 ruling.

    But all eight justices upheld the provision allowing police to check the status of those they had “reasonable suspicion” were in the country illegally, and then report their identity to federal authorities. The federal government could then decide whether it wanted to pick up and deport the illegal immigrants or let them go.

    Justices' split decision preserves contentious section on police check power - Washington Times

    Soooooooo...

  10. #80
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Gina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    31,923

    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    There are roughly 20 million illegals in America. Are you saying that for each one of them there will be one similarly-looking American citizen detained in the search for the 20 million illegals?
    This is where I misunderstood you. So please allow me to restate.

    You don't agree with me, fine. There are a greater number of legal American citizens of Hispanic and Native American heritage who will be subject to being stopped and questioned about their citizenship based merely on suspicion. I am a true American and given the lack of good reason to stop my relatives other than they resemble, in a broad and non-specific way (like gender, height, hair or lack of it) suspected illegals, they and I would not be thankful. Especially when children could be involved.

    While you may be fine with it, doesn't make it right.

    Revealing? In what way. I thought you were expressing an extreme view point or sarcasm about "Real Americans". My mistake.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

Page 8 of 60 FirstFirst ... 6789101858 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •