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Thread: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

  1. #471
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Guest workers are simply semi-slaves and should be ILLEGAL unless minimum wage x2 PLUS free decent housing is guaranteed. It is FAR different to allow a foreign machinist or medical technician a work visa than a fruit picker. That is simply nonsense to avoid paying a wage that supports a decent living in this country.
    This argument is a bit disingenuous. What you're arguing in effect is that a guest worker's quality of life would only be a 2, which is too low, so we should just relegate them to living a quality of life of 1... It doesn't make much sense. The life of a guest worker is definitely a step up from the life of an illegal immigrant. Just because it isn't as good as the life of a citizen doesn't mean it isn't an improvement.

    But, to call it slavery is ridiculous. They are free to choose whether they want to be in the guest worker program or not and they get paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    To assert that those paid to DO NOTHING on welfare or unemployment can not pick fruit is INSANE.

    The creation of a permanent underclass, imported temporarily or not, is INSANE. That is why AMNESTY for illegal aliens is insane, it converts field working semi-slaves into instant welfare recipients. There is NO NEED for below market wage workers, NONE at all. If a job is worth getting done, then it is worth paying a wage to attract workers to do it. If the required SKILL involved is not available in the U.S. then the wages are NOT deppressed by using foreign TEMPORARY labor until the U.S. can build up that trained workforce, but for unskilled or semi-skilled workers that is simply semi-slavery
    This is the part I honestly just don't understand for a second about the right's position on this stuff. We were to revert a large portion of our workforce from modern, high return, jobs to migrant laborers that would be a massive step backwards economically. Why would anybody want that? That's crazy.

    We want to move the economy FORWARD not BACKWARDS. We need to be looking for new jobs at the high end so everybody moves up a notch and we leave more jobs behind us. Then we fill in those jobs we left behind with guest workers.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post


    This is what Mexican immigrants who come here illegally to work as day laborers think of our U.S. immigration laws. These people have no fear of being deported and do not hide from the local police! Barack Obama wants to open our borders up to more of these people!
    WTF dude. You were having a good, adult, discussion and then you reverted to this?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post

    Then those industries SHOULD be destroyed. To assert that an industry is ONLY possible if FOREIGN semi-slave temporary labor is used is INSANE. Those are the products that SHOULD be imported, NOT simply the labor to produce them. How would YOU like it if your boss said your work is fine, but I must pay you HALF what you now get, to compete with China or Mexico? Think, before you drink, even koolaid.
    You are correct, ttwtt.

    The liberals complain about "slave wages" and deplorable working conditions" in China but then they turn around and allow these same conditions to flourish in this country.

    Again, let's crack down on employers that hire undocumented immigrants when we have a guest worker program that is sufficient to replace them. Meanwhile, let’s crack down on the unscrupulous employers who hire illegal immigrants to do the work of non-farm jobs such as gardeners, landscapers, short order cooks and day laborers.
    Last edited by James Cessna; 07-04-12 at 02:10 PM.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post




    This is what Mexican immigrants who come here illegally to work as day laborers think of our U.S. immigration laws. These people have no fear of being deported and do not hide from the local police! Barack Obama wants to open our borders up to more of these people!

    WTF dude. You were having a good, adult, discussion and then you reverted to this?
    I did not mean to offend you, but unfortunately, this is the honest truth.

    Are you aware of how Mexico treats the illegal immigrants who cross over into Mexico from their southern border?

    They detain them in hot Mexican prisons without due process until they can deport them to their host countries.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    I did not mean to offend you, but unfortunately, this is the honest truth.
    No man. It's not "truth". It's just you spreading ignorant, racist, nonsense. Grow up.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    This argument is a bit disingenuous. What you're arguing in effect is that a guest worker's quality of life would only be a 2, which is too low, so we should just relegate them to living a quality of life of 1... It doesn't make much sense. The life of a guest worker is definitely a step up from the life of an illegal immigrant. Just because it isn't as good as the life of a citizen doesn't mean it isn't an improvement.

    But, to call it slavery is ridiculous. They are free to choose whether they want to be in the guest worker program or not and they get paid.



    This is the part I honestly just don't understand for a second about the right's position on this stuff. We were to revert a large portion of our workforce from modern, high return, jobs to migrant laborers that would be a massive step backwards economically. Why would anybody want that? That's crazy.

    We want to move the economy FORWARD not BACKWARDS. We need to be looking for new jobs at the high end so everybody moves up a notch and we leave more jobs behind us. Then we fill in those jobs we left behind with guest workers.
    You sit there in SF, with its $10/hour MINIMUM wage and assert that FOREIGN labor is required to pick friut for LESS THAN a living wage? The shear hipocrisy in that is at the LIMIT. What RIGHT do you have, to sit high and mighty and dictate what work is BENEATH the dignity of a U.S. citizen, yet that NEEDS to be done in this country? You are HAPPY to watch OWS loons cry alligator tears about no work available and to PAY people not to work, and complain that U.S. wages are too LOW yet we need semi-slave imported labor to keep the fruit prices down? That is insane, pure and simple. This is not the economy that we are talking about, it is ONE very tiny underpaid part of it. If you want CHEAP FRUIT then import it, not simply the semi-slave labor to allow a millionaire (or ten) in CA to get richer.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-04-12 at 02:21 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You sit there in SF, with its $10/hour MINIMUM wage and assert that FOREIGN labor is required to pick friut for LESS THAN a living wage? The shear hipocrisy in that is at the LIMIT. What RIGHT do you have, to sit high and mighty and dictate what work is BENEATH the dignity of a U.S. citizen, yet that NEEDS to be done in this country? You are HAPPY to watch OWS loons cry alligator tears about no work available and to PAY people not to work, and complain that U.S. wages are too LOW yet we need semi-slave imported labor to keep the fruit prices down? That is insane, pure and simple. This is not the economy that we are talking about, it is ONE very tiny underpaid part of it. If you want CHEAP FRUIT then import it, not simply the semi-slave labor to allow a millionaire (or ten) in CA to get richer.
    Again:

    This argument is a bit disingenuous. What you're arguing in effect is that a guest worker's quality of life would only be a 2, which is too low, so we should just relegate them to living a quality of life of 1... It doesn't make much sense. The life of a guest worker is definitely a step up from the life of an illegal immigrant. Just because it isn't as good as the life of a citizen doesn't mean it isn't an improvement.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No man. It's not "truth". It's just you spreading ignorant, racist, nonsense. Grow up.
    And you are a tremendously bigotted person, dictating that REAL Americans are above doing farm work, or perhaps ANY other manual labor, and that REAL Americans should have low paid foreign laborers to serve them, as they do the "imporant" and higher paid "work". Get real! BTW, just what is YOUR job?
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-04-12 at 02:35 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Again:

    This argument is a bit disingenuous. What you're arguing in effect is that a guest worker's quality of life would only be a 2, which is too low, so we should just relegate them to living a quality of life of 1... It doesn't make much sense. The life of a guest worker is definitely a step up from the life of an illegal immigrant. Just because it isn't as good as the life of a citizen doesn't mean it isn't an improvement.
    No, what I am saying is FAR from that. I am saying if that job, picking fruit, good honest hard work, is offered at such a LOW wage IN THE USA that NOBODY in the U.S. will do it, then the WAGES OFFERED ARE SIMPLY TOO LOW. That is it, no more and no less. Welders and riggers on an off-shore oil platform do EXACTLY what they do on land, but they get MUCH MORE PAY because of the working conditions and short duration of the job. They do NOT use imported labor, they pay what is REQUIRED to get the U.S. labor to do the job. YES, it costs money, and YES it makes the product more expensive, but they pay FAIR MARKET wages, to attract the honest, hard working, U.S. workers that they need, and do not ask for semi-slave labor permits to get the work done CHEAPER, just to increase their profit.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-04-12 at 02:44 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    And you are a tremendously bigotted person, dictating the REAL Americans are above doing farm work, or perhaps ANY manual labor, and that REAL Americans should have low paid foreign laborers to serve them, as they do the "imporant" and higher paid "work". Get real!
    WTF are you talking about? Bigoted? You think it is bigotry to want the country to move forward economically? You're just being insane. Slow down, think things through, and come back with a position. Of course we want to continually move as many Americans as we can into better and better jobs... Do you really disagree with that or are you just angry? And, of course, we want to provide other people the opportunity to take the jobs we leave behind... Why wouldn't we? I get how mad you are, but I honestly don't get why.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    BTW, just what is YOUR job?
    I was in software for a long time, then I went back to school to get a law degree. I have one year of law school left. This summer I'm working at a law firm. Why?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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