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Thread: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    No actually that will increase demand for legal employees.
    You realize that you're making the union argument, right? Employers are just paying low wages because they're greedy -- not because they have to to remain competitive. Sometimes its true -- in both cases -- and sometimes it's not. Sometimes the loss of undocumented workers will result in more legal workers being hired, and sometimes a company can simply no longer compete with foreign competition.

    The truth is that the economy is better off with illegals than it would be without them. Immigration laws in Arizona and Alabama come at a great economic cost | Business | TIME.com

    Of course it would be better still if we brought them out of the shadows with immigration reform.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You realize that you're making the union argument, right? Employers are just paying low wages because they're greedy -- not because they have to to remain competitive. Sometimes its true -- in both cases -- and sometimes it's not. Sometimes the loss of undocumented workers will result in more legal workers being hired, and sometimes a company can simply no longer compete with foreign competition.
    That's why we need to stop all immigration AND throw up Tariffs.
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    That's why we need to stop all immigration AND throw up Tariffs.
    ... thus destroying the economy and blowing inflation through the roof by instigating a trade war.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post

    If you REALLY wanted to end the "cheap foreign labor" profits you would CUT all federal aid to the states for illegal aliens. The federal gov't MANDATES that the states educate (the children of) illegal aliens and pays them to do it while it leaves the border open. Stop that education aid and the states would help turn off the jobs magnet as they would then bear these HUGE costs. As long as the federal gov't bears the costs and the state gets the benefits, illegal immigration will never end. The illegal immigration magnet is FEDERALLY subsidized, making it not a state cost.
    We need well-educated immigrants with marketable job skills. Most immigrants from Mexico are uneducated and lack technology and management skills. We have more than enough gardeners, landscapers, short order cooks and day labelers. We don't need any more.

    The illegal immigration magnet only benefits the U.S. employers who hire these people and provide them with jobs. If they had to bear the full costs for doing so (public education, free medical care, subsidized housing, higher crime rates), they would not give these people who are here illegally jobs in the first place.


    Last edited by James Cessna; 07-04-12 at 12:18 PM.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    We need well-educated immigrants with marketable job skills. Most immigrants from Mexico are uneducated and lack technology and management skills. We have more than enough gardeners, landscapers, short order cooks and day labelers. We don't need any more.
    I believe the employers in Arizona and Alabama would disagree with your assessment. They have not been able to find legal workers to fill the vacated jobs. The United Farm Workers are running a "Take Our Jobs" campaign in California, offering fruit picking jobs to any American who wants them. They got about two serious candidates. TAKEOURJOBS.ORG
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post

    I believe the employers in Arizona and Alabama would disagree with your assessment. They have not been able to find legal workers to fill the vacated jobs. The United Farm Workers are running a "Take Our Jobs" campaign in California, offering fruit picking jobs to any American who wants them. They got about two serious candidates. TAKEOURJOBS.ORG
    You are mistaken, AdamT.

    There are many U.S. citizens who will accept the jobs employers in Arizona and Alabama give to illegal workers. CNN did a study and found that most non-farm jobs (farm jobs are very short and seasonable) would be accepted by legal workers if these jobs were actually offered to them.

    The employers in Arizona and Alabama will not hire legal workers because they do not want to pay the Social Security taxes and the minimage wage to our legal workers that are required for them to do so by federal law.


    These employers save a lot of money and avoid a lot of paperwork if they instead hire illegal immigrants to work for them.
    Last edited by James Cessna; 07-04-12 at 12:54 PM.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    You are mistaken, AdamT.

    There are many U.S. citizens who will accept the jobs employers in Arizona and Alabama give to illegal workers. CNN did a study and found that most non-farm jobs (farm jobs are very short and seasonable) would be accepted by legal workers if these jobs were actually offered to them.

    The employers in Arizona and Alabama will not hire legal workers because they do not want to pay the Social Security taxes and the minimage wage to our legal workers that are required for them to do so by federal law.


    These employers save a lot of money and avoid a lot of paperwork if they instead hire illegal immigrants to work for them.
    If they aren't willing to accept the wages offered, then they aren't willing to take the job. Everybody would do any kind of work for enough money.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post

    If they aren't willing to accept the wages offered, then they aren't willing to take the job. Everybody would do any kind of work for enough money.
    You are mistaken, teamosil.

    Would you accept a job where you make less than minimum wage with no Social Security credits when you can make more by drawing food stamps and unemployment benefits?


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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    Would you accept a job where you make less than minimum wage with no Social Security credits when you can make more by drawing food stamps and unemployment benefits?
    No. That's the point. Virtually no citizens would.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post

    No. That's the point. Virtually no citizens would.
    We agree.

    The states should crack down on the employers who do not pay minimum wages and Social Security taxes.

    This will solve our illegal immigration problem very quickly if the people who come here illegally cannot find jobs.

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