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Thread: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

  1. #341
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    When I wrote "In other words" it is called "paraphrasing", they were not your words but they were meant to convey the intention of what your words were saying.
    Then you should not have used quote marks. You are dishonest. I reject your poor explanation. Moving on...

    Wow, talk about clueless OR you didn't really bother to read it. Tyler Cowen writes "We need to accept the principle that sometimes poor people will die just because they are poor. " and you think that is what American progressives believe. "Let them die" is what we hear on a daily basis from multiple righties, always with the excuse, "If you can't pay for it, you don't deserve it.
    When you accept that this leftist speaks for conservatives this is the muddled outcome you get. That is what I expected and that is the reality. He is dishonest. Are you as well?

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Sure is a lot of 'blood of tyrants' rhetoric going on in this one.

    The King stuff is interesting since every President since St. Ronald the icon of Dawn in America has waved a scepter from time to time. Why is this one being called a King when Reagan BushI BushII apparently are not?

    Refusing to do his duty- again can anyone name the President who secure the border, got the immigrants to line up and wait their turn, boosted 'native' wages but busted Unions, had dogs and cats sleeping together....

    Revolution- Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War!!!!!! YAWN

    I like how some rant against approx 5% of the population is driving down wages but the same moaners are all for Union busting which got wages up there to begin with. I don't know about the building trade, I think making 'real' American carpenters some sort of sober, drug free saint of a worker is a bit much as is making immigrant nailers and tote men, you know the guys who haul the shingles up three flights, does the concrete work, and fills in the nail patterns following behind the 'saints' out to be some sort of 'tards with no work ethic is too extreme for real dis-CUSS-ion.

    Do know the folks who process the chicken, beef, pork we eat don't like the work, it is carpal tunnel, cold moist, wear you out past tomorrow work. 'Real' Americans MIGHT do that work for 6 months, but I damn sure can find better things to do. Every so often ICE runs the immigrants out of some major packer plant and the 'natives' line up for the jobs.... they never last.

    Immigration needs to be reformed, we need real allowances to let those in who are hard workers even if it isn't brain surgery. Need to restart the guest worker program and boy howdy we want them sending that money back to old Mexico... it is far more stabilizing than the BILLIONS being sent there by the drug cartels.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    The wealth of the nation is based partially upon what the government provides, partially upon the free market and capitalism, partially upon the labour of millions and partially upon the natural resources that allowed this nation to grow and prosper thru the 19th C when the Europeans were stealing resources from their various colonies.
    Governments do not create wealth. They consume it. As long as this concept is foreign to you you will consistently get the wrong answer. Socialists are particularly dangerous as they (you) actually believe this nonsense.

    Obviously your education in political science is a bit lacking. Democratic socialism is working quite well in much of the industrialised world
    Really? Such as in France, Spain, Portugal, Greece? Great Britain? Is that your argument? Socialism works until you run out of everybody else's money?

    with democratic/republican type governance and in some cases more personal freedom than Americans have - most it is about the same.
    I suppose if you like plunder, if stealing from your neighbors is an acceptable practice then it is quite simple to redefine freedom until it loses its meaning. Once you believe, as I believe you do, that all property belongs to the state to be disbursed by politicians, then freedom is gone.

    The "evil" you wish to "eradicate" exists only in your mind and in those of your ilk. An all powerful state can be and often is just as evil as a nation run on pure free-market capitalism. Communists are collectivists, not socialists. Those on the left, I would say, care far more about "the individual" than most of those professing modern American 'conservative' views.
    Marxist, socialists, communists, statists. You are all collectivists. You may lie to yourself if you wish.
    Socialists cannot possibly care about individuals. We play no role in your calculus. For you it is all about dominance and control. Conservatism has, as its core belief, that the individual has worth, that governments must be limited by written constitutions, that rules, laws, regulations, taxation, should all be limited, used sparingly and only for Constitutional purposes. We reject statists. We reject Communists. We reject Socialists. We reject Leftist no matter what camouflage they wear.

  4. #344
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Sure is a lot of 'blood of tyrants' rhetoric going on in this one.

    The King stuff is interesting since every President since St. Ronald the icon of Dawn in America has waved a scepter from time to time. Why is this one being called a King when Reagan BushI BushII apparently are not?

    Refusing to do his duty- again can anyone name the President who secure the border, got the immigrants to line up and wait their turn, boosted 'native' wages but busted Unions, had dogs and cats sleeping together....

    Revolution- Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War!!!!!! YAWN

    I like how some rant against approx 5% of the population is driving down wages but the same moaners are all for Union busting which got wages up there to begin with. I don't know about the building trade, I think making 'real' American carpenters some sort of sober, drug free saint of a worker is a bit much as is making immigrant nailers and tote men, you know the guys who haul the shingles up three flights, does the concrete work, and fills in the nail patterns following behind the 'saints' out to be some sort of 'tards with no work ethic is too extreme for real dis-CUSS-ion.

    Do know the folks who process the chicken, beef, pork we eat don't like the work, it is carpal tunnel, cold moist, wear you out past tomorrow work. 'Real' Americans MIGHT do that work for 6 months, but I damn sure can find better things to do. Every so often ICE runs the immigrants out of some major packer plant and the 'natives' line up for the jobs.... they never last.

    Immigration needs to be reformed, we need real allowances to let those in who are hard workers even if it isn't brain surgery. Need to restart the guest worker program and boy howdy we want them sending that money back to old Mexico... it is far more stabilizing than the BILLIONS being sent there by the drug cartels.
    The whole thing is just too nauseating, between the anti-immigrant crap being spewed by white supremacists and the Fast & Furious BS being spewed by anti-government militias ... and conservatives eating it up like scurvy dogs on cat poop.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Yeah right - "the government has had a monopoly on education" and that must be the reason why those states which have fought the hardest for local control of education, down to even refusing to listen to their own state governments, are the ones doing so well -
    Are you foolishly disagreeing that the government has had a nearly complete monopoly over education in this nation for at least 60 years and a substantial role for even longer? Really? Is that your argument? Do you believe that centralizing control over the schools at higher and higher levels has been a positive thing? If so why? If it is all "peachy" then why would you raise the "Exxon" statement?

    Oh yes, - open up education to the private sector, where profits are more important than the educational outcome.
    Do you know what ignorance is? Have you ever purchased anything from a for profit business? How did that work out? Did you get what you wanted at a price you were willing to pay? Why do you believe it would be any different for education? Why shouldn't there be a free market for education with people spending what they want on education tailored specifically to their wants, needs, and desires? Is it because the consumer would have far greater control than leftist union bosses?

    I cannot speak to these two examples. Charter schools are government run public schools in many places. I am talking about a real shift away from government run schools, not a mere repackaging of government run schools.

  6. #346
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The whole thing is just too nauseating, between the anti-immigrant crap being spewed by white supremacists and the Fast & Furious BS being spewed by anti-government militias ... and conservatives eating it up like scurvy dogs on cat poop.
    I agree it's nauseating, but we disagree on which part. The reframe of what honest, non-racist, immigrant loving people believe into the above partisan pap is indeed disgusting. Not a single poster here has taken a stand against immigrants of any color, creed, gender, shape or age. You're continuing inability to distinquish between immigrants and illegal aliens is nauseating.

    The F&F scandal is not the subject of anti-government militias, but rather the legitimate concern of American government.

  7. #347
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're never going to convice with wild hyperbole. As long as what you say is nutter, no one will take you seriously.
    I cannot help that you are so disinterested, or perhaps his tyrannical actions suit you. Do you believe the dictator should be able to grant amnesty without legislative action? I do not. And yet the tyrant did it.

    Do you belive he should use his justice department to sue states so they cannot defend themselves? I do not. And yet you seem to like it.

    Do you believe the tyrant should be able to use his justice department to fix the results of the next election by preventing the states from eliminating the dead and non-citizens from the voter roles? That is what the tyrant is doing.

    Do you believe the tyrant should use executive agencies to destroy industries like coal? The tyrant promised to do it and he is doing it.

    The one who is the nutter is the one who watches a "Hitler" come to power and acquiesces.

    Fortunately we can still defeat him. We must.
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 06-27-12 at 08:28 PM.

  8. #348
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I agree it's nauseating, but we disagree on which part. The reframe of what honest, non-racist, immigrant loving people believe into the above partisan pap is indeed disgusting. Not a single poster here has taken a stand against immigrants of any color, creed, gender, shape or age. You're continuing inability to distinquish between immigrants and illegal aliens is nauseating.

    The F&F scandal is not the subject of anti-government militias, but rather the legitimate concern of American government.
    Keep trying with AdamT if you will. You can always tell a moron, but you sure can't tell 'em much. ;-)
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #349
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I agree it's nauseating, but we disagree on which part. The reframe of what honest, non-racist, immigrant loving people believe into the above partisan pap is indeed disgusting. Not a single poster here has taken a stand against immigrants of any color, creed, gender, shape or age. You're continuing inability to distinquish between immigrants and illegal aliens is nauseating.

    The F&F scandal is not the subject of anti-government militias, but rather the legitimate concern of American government.
    I wasn't talking about posters here. But it is a fact that many if not most of the big groups spending big bucks in opposition to immigration reform have ties to white supremacist groups. They don't disseminate hate to make their case but that is what animates them.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post

    Supreme Court strikes down most of Arizona immigration law

    Of course, this is still early on, but it seems that most of the law was determined to be illegal.


    Obama will not cooperate with Arizona when it comes to INS immigration enforcement. This is nothing but a political ploy by Barack Obama to garner more of the Hispanic vote in November.

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