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Thread: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Have you ever been so broke you weren't sure when you were going to eat? "poverty comfortable for the free-loaders" is complete and utter crap!
    Of course it isn't. And yes the left has made poverty very comfortable. The poor have taxpayer-paid-for cell phones, air conditioning, color televisions, free health care, essentially free rent, food assistance...

    Are there "free-loaders"? Of course. Are the vast majority of Americans who are only surviving because of various welfare and charitable efforts all "free-loaders"? NO
    In my opinion they are.


    "let poverty be poverty" Misterveritis writes, I wonder if he has read Tyler Cowen's 'justifications for abolishing all government-funded health care
    Do you think it is relevant? I have not read it but suspect when I do I will discover that it is written by someone who believes they have a greater claim to the things I produce than I do.

    I do believe we would all be better off if the government just butted out of health care, education, and housing as a start.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post

    Do you think it is relevant? I have not read it but suspect when I do I will discover that it is written by someone who believes they have a greater claim to the things I produce than I do.

    I do believe we would all be better off if the government just butted out of health care, education, and housing as a start.

    In other words, "I don't really know anything about the poor in America but I certainly believe what Limbaugh, Hannity, FoxNews, etc etc are saying about those free-loaders and that's good enough for me."



    OK, you haven't bothered to read the link to Tyler Cowen's page. I think you will find him to think exactly as you do if your words here are a true indication of what you think.

    You can believe "we would all be better off if the government just butted out of health care, education, and housing but reality does appear to indicate otherwise as the US falls further behind the rest of the G-20 in health care, education and housing. When we have Exxon Mobil running TV ads that decry the present state of education in America, you know we got problems.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    First, are you under the misguided impression that people who are fresh off the boat form Ireland cannot be here legally?
    So you were discriminating based on their country of origin? All of them were as you described? Again....the integrity issue is in play.

    Second, are you under the misguided impression that the market value for residential carpenters included benefits?
    I'm not going to eliminate that from the value and say it represents the market.

    third, are you under the impression that the thing you made up and attributed to me as the premise I started from accurately portrays the premise I started from? (hint: at no point did I say that I wanted to attract US workers. That's just some idiocy you invented to pretend that you have a clue)
    Hey, if that is the argument that you want to play now, fine....you DID NOT WANT TO ATTRACT US EMPLOYEES. Cool.

    It's one thing to be ignorant, as you have demonstrated yourself to be, but it's another thing when you outright lie, as you have also done repeatedly by pretending that you have a ****ing clue about what you are talking about.
    Dude, the only claim I made was that in the market where I live, there are lots of out of work carpenters willing to take the wage you were talking about. After that, it has been about getting you to reveal all of the facts surrounding your specious claim about "lazy US carpenters".
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    In other words, "I don't really know anything about the poor in America but I certainly believe what Limbaugh, Hannity, FoxNews, etc etc are saying about those free-loaders and that's good enough for me."
    Do you find it difficult to address what I wrote? Is that the reason why you falsely quoted me? This is shameful on your part.

    OK, you haven't bothered to read the link to Tyler Cowen's page. I think you will find him to think exactly as you do if your words here are a true indication of what you think.
    I went there. It is as I stated. the author has no clue about liberty and its relationship to private property. Nor do you. It was a waste of my time as it contained all the usual left-socialist arguments. No thanks.

    You can believe "we would all be better off if the government just butted out of health care, education, and housing but reality does appear to indicate otherwise as the US falls further behind the rest of the G-20 in health care, education and housing. When we have Exxon Mobil running TV ads that decry the present state of education in America, you know we got problems.
    Where do I begin? Are you one of those who believe that the wealth of this nation is based on what government provides? Are you so enamored of European socialism that you wish it upon us?

    As a socialist you are also a tyrant. You must be as you cannot believe in concepts like property, liberty and freedom. Socialists are collectivists. You do not care one whit about the individual. The state must be all powerful. Socialism is an evil I wish we could eradicate.

    Given that the government has had a monopoly on education and it has clearly failed based on your Exxon comment above do you agree with me that we should abolish the Education Department, close all government schools, make it illegal for the government to get involved in education and open it up to the private sector?
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 06-27-12 at 06:06 PM.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I apologized for calling them lazy, not for saying they price themselves out of the market.
    Nobody said you were apologizing for the "price (sic) themselves out". Again, they did not do that. You still can't come to terms with the concept of markets and wages.

    Also, you are not in a position to talk about integrity, as you have no clue what you are talking about.
    Sigh, I didn't have to defend anything, all I did was to show you prevailing wages.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    So you were discriminating based on their country of origin?
    More like doing favors for friends from Ireland who had family that just came out, but nice try.

    All of them were as you described?
    The few that only made 10-15 an hour were.

    I'm not going to eliminate that from the value and say it represents the market.
    Some integrity you have. You aren't going to eliminate something that wasn't a factor in the market value for residential carpentry from the calculation of market value for residential carpentry.

    Do you also include the price of a new boat for every employee in your calculations, because it has just as much relevancy here.

    Hey, if that is the argument that you want top play now, fine....you DID NOT WANT TO ATTRACT US EMPLOYEES. Cool.
    Why would I want to attract US employees? That would be discrimination based on country of birth. I was only interested in attracting skilled employees. I did this very effectively at the wages I paid because it was a very good wage for residential carpentry (I had lower profits than my competitors, but higher quality workmanship because of it). And there were plenty of Americans who looked for jobs with me based on the wage I paid, but unfortunately for them their skills and work ethic didn't warrant the higher wages that I paid. If they had been willing to work their way up and learn the trade, as I did, then I would have gladly taken them on. They weren't willing to do that.


    Dude, the only claim I made was that in the market where I live, there are lots of out of work carpenters willing to take the wage you were talking about.
    Now they would, because they are desperate for work and the market is ****ed to the point where someone couldn't pay what I paid and still own a company.




    After that, it has been about getting you to reveal all of the facts surrounding your specious claim about "lazy US carpenters".
    Bull****. You've lied consistently in this thread by constantly pretending to know what you are talking about when you are clearly ignorant as all get out. Yet you have the audacity to claim I lack integrity.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Sigh, I didn't have to defend anything, all I did was to show you prevailing wages.
    False. You pretended that something you didn't understand was actually prevailing wages for residential carpentry.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Originally Posted by Somerville
    In other words, "I don't really know anything about the poor in America but I certainly believe what Limbaugh, Hannity, FoxNews, etc etc are saying about those free-loaders and that's good enough for me."
    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    Misterveritis[/B];1060631617]Do you find it difficult to address what I wrote? Is that the reason why you falsely quoted me? This is shameful on your part.
    When I wrote "In other words" it is called "paraphrasing", they were not your words but they were meant to convey the intention of what your words were saying.

    Somerville OK, you haven't bothered to read the link to Tyler Cowen's page. I think you will find him to think exactly as you do if your words here are a true indication of what you think.
    Misterveritis I went there. It is as I stated. the author has no clue ab out liberty and its relationship to private property. Nor do you. It was a waste of my time as it contained all the usual left-socialist arguments. No thanks.
    Wow, talk about clueless OR you didn't really bother to read it. Tyler Cowen writes "We need to accept the principle that sometimes poor people will die just because they are poor. " and you think that is what American progressives believe. "Let them die" is what we hear on a daily basis from multiple righties, always with the excuse, "If you can't pay for it, you don't deserve it.


    Misterveritis Where do I begin? Are you one of those who believe that the wealth of this nation is based on what government provides? Are you so enamored of European socialism that you wish it upon us?
    The wealth of the nation is based partially upon what the government provides, partially upon the free market and capitalism, partially upon the labour of millions and partially upon the natural resources that allowed this nation to grow and prosper thru the 19th C when the Europeans were stealing resources from their various colonies.

    Misterveritis As a socialist you are also a tyrant. You must be as you cannot believe in concepts like property, liberty and freedom. Socialists are collectivists. You do not care one whit about the individual. The state must be all powerful. Socialism is an evil I wish we could eradicate.
    Obviously your education in political science is a bit lacking. Democratic socialism is working quite well in much of the industrialised world with democratic/republican type governance and in some cases more personal freedom than Americans have - most it is about the same. The "evil" you wish to "eradicate" exists only in your mind and in those of your ilk. An all powerful state can be and often is just as evil as a nation run on pure free-market capitalism. Communists are collectivists, not socialists. Those on the left, I would say, care far more about "the individual" than most of those professing modern American 'conservative' views.

    Misterveritis Given that the government has had a monopoly on education and it has clearly failed based on your Exxon comment above do you agree with me that we should abolish the Education Department, close all government schools, make it illegal for the government to get involved in education and open it up to the private sector?
    Yeah right - "the government has had a monopoly on education" and that must be the reason why those states which have fought the hardest for local control of education, down to even refusing to listen to their own state governments, are the ones doing so well -

    Oh yes, - open up education to the private sector, where profits are more important than the educational outcome.
    National Association of Charter School Authorizers President Greg Richmond says the problem is not the business model. He says there’s nothing “inherently problematic educationally or otherwise in running a school organized as a for-profit. There’s nothing in that model that says that can’t work or it has to be inappropriate.”

    The problem, he says, is that Ohio exercises very little oversight of its more than 300 charter schools.

    “What a lot of people thought in the 90’s was that running a school would be easy as long as you removed these regulations that were holding them back,” Richmond says. “And that turned out not to be true.”

    Darn, a person who likes charter schools saying they need government regulation!


    LINK
    Twin Cities charter schools fail to deliver promised gains, study claims

    Florida Charter Schools Failing Disabled Students

    Shuttering Bad Charter Schools
    Published: February 20, 2012

    The charter school movement has expanded over the last 20 years largely on this promise: If exempted from some state regulations, charters could outperform traditional public schools because they have flexibility and can be more readily tailored to the needs of students. Another selling point is that these schools are supposed to be periodically reviewed when they renew their operating permits — and easily shut down if they fail.

    It hasn't worked out that way



    I've gone off topic - My apologies. No more responses from me in this thread
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    He has become a dictator, a tyrant. He is acting in extra-constitutional ways. He is selecting which laws he will enforce and which he will not. He, along with the courts, are acting against the American citizen. We must have regime change in the US.
    You're never going to convice with wild hyperbole. As long as what you say is nutter, no one will take you seriously.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Why would I want to attract US employees? That would be discrimination based on country of birth. I was only interested in attracting skilled employees. I did this very effectively at the wages I paid because it was a very good wage for residential carpentry (I had lower profits than my competitors, but higher quality workmanship because of it). And there were plenty of Americans who looked for jobs with me based on the wage I paid, but unfortunately for them their skills and work ethic didn't warrant the higher wages that I paid. If they had been willing to work their way up and learn the trade, as I did, then I would have gladly taken them on. They weren't willing to do that.
    Once again, the integrity issue shows itself, this time in the form of an inconsistent argument. A skilled journeyman carpenter working in the US will know code, will know best practices, will be a qualified employee. You are not going to get that with someone who is "fresh off the boat" or is "working their way up". They are someone established, they have a work history in the US...in short an employee with references and integrity. You are not going to get that during a boom time through cut-rate means. You see, I have worked and managed and owned an auto repair business. You are only as good as your last repair, so you can't afford to have average employees, you need the best if you want to maintain a reputation. If you don't, the work comes back as warranty...or worse. You can take the chance on guys "fresh off the boat", but that is short sighted and doesn't allow your business or reputation to last. I suppose one can get away with cruddy work once the drywall is up and hope that nothing shifts since in most cases it isn't a life threatening situation, I guess I just have higher standards for myself and my customers.

    Again, if the argument is that you get higher quality by paying less, then I'm afraid you live in a different world.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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