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Thread: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

  1. #241
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm always flabbergasted when a libertarian has an anti-illegal immigrant position. That's direct opposition to the one thing in this country that actually supports the idea that the free market economy actually works.
    OK skippy let me TRY to explain the difference between the standard of living in Mexico vs. the U.S. to you. If you CARE to live at the EXACT same standard of living as your parents, then you see that you are VERY incorrect. The standard of living goes UP for the illegal immigrant (their parents are still in Mexico), but it goes DOWN for the U.S. citizen (their parents are in the U.S.) at THE SAME STATIC/DECLINING WAGES. In Mexico you drive on dirt roads, have little availability of clean water/sewer systems or any other gov't services, have rampant criminal gangs running around and have no legal system to protect you, by simply crossing the border you have entered paradise, increased your standard of living without even doing ANYTHING else yet; wages offered for ANY U.S. work are 5x to 10x what you left behind.

    If you want the U.S. to become MORE like Mexico, simply start by paying those wages, lowering the standard of living here to match that. The U.S. worker sees this change as not being good and OBJECTS; you label that as anti free market? Perhaps we should START this race to the bottom by paying our school teachers and police the SAME wages that they get in Mexico, but NO, you want the PUBLIC workers immune from this "fairness" only those private highschool educated folks should play those compete with third world labor rate games.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-27-12 at 01:24 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #242
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Did you forget to post the link?
    OK here you go, saved you those precious keystrokes: Wage Determinations Online
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #243
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You are making my point, you as an employer would/could not pay enough to attract the employee you wanted.
    What are you talking about? I didn't want to have to overpay for the employees I didn't want (i.e. the Natural born US citizens)


    The employee you wanted could not live upon the wage you offered.
    You got the order all wrong. The employees I wanted (hard working immigrants) were extremely happy with the wage I offered (since I paid very well). The employees I didn't want (the lazy American workers who weren't very skilled but thought they were special) thought that I didn't pay enough.

    You are arguing that the employees that you want should be living at the bottom....and like it.
    NO, I'm arguing that ****ty american workers shouldn't make the false assumption that they deserve more than the good immigrant workers by simple virtue of being American.

    You've clearly misread what I've said, because you think it says something that it does not say.

    I'm still trying to understand how any of this makes you a "socialist".
    Don't trust the lean. Politically speaking, I'm close to the anti-federalists of th e1780's than anything else, and that lean does not exist, so I change my lean every few weeks for ****s and giggles.

    PS....I enjoy your skipping over the Chamber of Commerce note.
    I chose instead to focus on the patently false premise that you are operating from (that American workers are superior workers who are worth the cost of their asking price).

    I don't deny that illegal immigration is good for businesses. They get equal-to-higher quality workmanship for a much lower cost than they would if they were forced into being stuck with lazy American workers.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  4. #244
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    OK skippy let me TRY to explain the difference between the standard of living in Mexico vs. the U.S. to you.
    OK, let me TRY to explain to you the difference between hard working immigrants and lazy-ass Americans.

    Immigrants work hard. They do this for less money.

    Americans are lazy. They expect more money for this.

    I don't give a flying **** about the standards of living (and by the way, my employees weren't Mexican. Hate to burst your pathetic strawman bubble, they were Irish immigrants. I do find it rather telling that you are ignorant enough to assume immigrant means Mexican, though. The Irish have a comparable standard of living, but a much better work ethic)
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  5. #245
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Any other administration I would agree with you, but this one? I am not so sure anymore....Obama is effectively saying he will not enforce the border in AZ, nor lend any federal help in doing so. I thought he took an oath?
    Where has he siad that? Please, provide support for that claim.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #246
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    And don't you just know that this guy will pop up elsewhere arguing that the minimum wage should be abolished and government regulations are destroying business ... while crying because the government isn't protecting him from competition.
    OK then lets "level the field" this way. Immediatley end all welfare, SNAP and other handouts to make illegal/legal differences disappear, OR offer them to illegals as well, I don't care which way you go. NOW, will U.S. citizens and illegals BOTH work cheap? The answer, according to Tucker is NO, U.S. freeloders are unskilled and lazy so they must fed by the gov't since he won't hire them. The answer from you is NO, since you KNOW that given a choice, between welfare and very hard low wage work, it is a no brainer, the illegals would choose the dole just as 15% of the U.S. population now does.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #247
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The answer, according to Tucker is NO, U.S. freeloders are unskilled and lazy so they must fed by tha gov't since he won't hire them.
    Not exactly. My stance is that the unskilled and lazy US workers think they deserve more money than they are worth. I would have hired them if they didn't price themselves out of the market. Why would I pay $30 an hour for an American who wasn't as skilled or hardworking as the skilled, hardworking immigrant who would work for $25 an hour? I'd hire that American for $10-$15 an hour because they weren't worth more than that. They wouldn't take the job for that amount, though.

    (And that's the actual rates I paid per hour for carpenters, not $10 an hour. I'd pay my unskilled laborers the $10-$15 an hour rate).
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  8. #248
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Where has he siad that? Please, provide support for that claim.
    Links: DHS suspends immigration agreements with Arizona in wake of Court ruling « Hot Air

    DHS announces Ariz. immigration enforcement cutback | The Daily Caller
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #249
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I chose instead to focus on the patently false premise that you are operating from (that American workers are superior workers who are worth the cost of their asking price).
    That was NEVER MY premise, your premise is the opposite. Your argument ignores the fact of CoL for the two groups we are discussing. A US citizen is not going to lower his level to that of a recent "immigrant" (echem..not "illegal"), but that is the wage you are offering. Again, the established high skilled US worker is someone you do not want to higher.

    I don't deny that illegal immigration is good for businesses. They get equal-to-higher quality workmanship for a much lower cost than they would if they were forced into being stuck with lazy American workers.
    or "non-lazy" US workers.

    Your whole argument hinges on this "lazy" American. That is always the characterization used by those who won't pay a real wage. We call them "capitalist pigs".
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #250
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    That doesn't support his claim. They simply are not working with certain agencies. This does not say they will not defend the boarder. I know making honest distinctions is hard to do, but I must insist that we defend exactly what he claimed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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