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Thread: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

  1. #231
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    A few problems exist with your clever substitution of "Mexican" for TOTAL U.S. illegal immigrants. Even YOUR supplied souce states that "of Mexican descent" is about 60% of total U.S. illegal immigration. Another glaring error is your assertion of the birthrate for illegals, as being below HALF that needed for simple replacement. I did point out that many of these births result in citizen "anchor babies", but that does NOT make these people "unrelated" to the illegal immigration OF THEIR PARENTS. Perhaps a quick look at the minority/hispanic birthrates in the U.S. will support the FACT that your "assumption" of reproduction rates below the minimum replacement rate is total BS.

    I NEVER claimed that U.S. workers are "unable to compete", simply that they are now FORCED to do so, often at the cost of accepting a stagnent or decreasing pay/benefit package for those AVERAGE jobs, since illegal labor can not complain about such things; as long as the SAME work in the U.S. pays 5x to 10x what it does in "the homeland" illegal aliens will still come here for it.

    I agree that the lack of job availability has now slowed the influx TEMPORARILY, but as soon as things pick up, they will resume their illegal migration. These folks "without a dime in their pockets" pay handsomely for help getting into and established (with fake ID) in this country, and many have friends and relatives here to assist them as well.
    Well I believe the discussion centers around the protection of Arizona's border with Mexico. Or did you think that illegal Canadians were streaming into Arizona and taking people's landscaping jobs?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  2. #232
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    BS. They simply can not, or will not accept stagnent or declining wage/benefit packages offered that STILL beat what the illegals can earn in their homeland by 5x tp 10x. Jobs that paid $10/hour 15 years ago STILL pay $10/hour, even though the cost of living (as a normal citizen) and the U.S. minimum wage has risen. Many illegals are quite willing to live 10 to a three bedroom house and send much of their earnings "home" to help support other relatives that they left behind. Look in ANY convenince store in south Texas and you will see countless anonymous "financial aids" to send money back to Mexico.
    The same is true for almost ALL non-executive occupations -- not just those that are typically occupied by undocumented workers. Welcome to supply side economics land.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Well I believe the discussion centers around the protection of Arizona's border with Mexico. Or did you think that illegal Canadians were streaming into Arizona and taking people's landscaping jobs?
    You are being UNBELIEVABLY dense, AND purposefully distorting things. Of course AZ is likely to have more illegal aliens of Mexican origin than the U.S. average, as they are a border state with Mexico. That is the strangest thing about "averages", is it not? Some places have WAY MORE illegal immigrants than others; perhaps you think AZ has only the average number of them?
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-27-12 at 12:31 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The same is true for almost ALL non-executive occupations -- not just those that are typically occupied by undocumented workers. Welcome to supply side economics land.
    But that effect is MAGNIFIED tremendously in the border states. Look at what wages are paid for construction work in TX and AZ, then compare them to those SAME positions in NC and PA, using the gov't's Davis-Bacon act "prevailing" wages. Hmm...
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You mean the "market" is not paying a wage high enough to attract legal workers.
    No, I mean they priced themselves out of the market. I ran a construction company (and I only hired legal workers, by the way). Natural-born American citizens think they are too good to work for the wages immigrants will work for. On top of that, they weren't as good of employees.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    But that effect is MAGNIFIED tremendously in the border states. Look at what wages are paid for construction work in TX and AZ, then compare them to those SAME positions in NC and PA, using the gov't's Davis-Bacon act "prevailing" wages. Hmm...
    Did you forget to post the link?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    BS. They simply can not, or will not accept stagnent or declining wage/benefit packages offered that STILL beat what the illegals can earn in their homeland by 5x tp 10x.
    The problem with your assessment is the flawed assumption that it's just illegal immigrants that drive down the cost of labor. Legal immigrants, the people I typically hired, were twice the employee for half the cost as a natural born US citizen was.

    Illegal immigrants aren't the problem (and they never have been, despite decades of whining by the anti-illegal crowd), lazy Americans are the problem. Personally I'd rather deport the no-skill-having, overpriced, arrogant Natural-born citizens that are nothing more than a victim-mentality drain in the economy than the hard working, talented, workers that just happen to be here illegally.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    No, I mean they priced themselves out of the market. I ran a construction company (and I only hired legal workers, by the way). Natural-born American citizens think they are too good to work for the wages immigrants will work for. On top of that, they weren't as good of employees.
    And don't you just know that this guy will pop up elsewhere arguing that the minimum wage should be abolished and government regulations are destroying business ... while crying because the government isn't protecting him from competition.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    And don't you just know that this guy will pop up elsewhere arguing that the minimum wage should be abolished and government regulations are destroying business ... while crying because the government isn't protecting him from competition.
    I'm always flabbergasted when a libertarian has an anti-illegal immigrant position. That's direct opposition to the one thing in this country that actually supports the idea that the free market economy actually works.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  10. #240
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    No, I mean they priced themselves out of the market. I ran a construction company (and I only hired legal workers, by the way). Natural-born American citizens think they are too good to work for the wages immigrants will work for. On top of that, they weren't as good of employees.
    You are making my point, you as an employer would/could not pay enough to attract the employee you wanted. The employee you wanted could not live upon the wage you offered. His CoL was not met by your offer. It is not his fault that your wage offer does not meet his CoL needs. The "immigrants" (those "not" illegal) had a basement CoL, they could live off your offering. You are arguing that the employees that you want should be living at the bottom....and like it.

    I'm still trying to understand how any of this makes you a "socialist".

    PS....I enjoy your skipping over the Chamber of Commerce note.
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 06-27-12 at 12:58 PM.
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