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Thread: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    No true scotsman bases their arguments on fallacies.
    My implied point-in-the-making is that there is a very wide swing on the interpretation of what constitutes a "true" anything, which I make to allow the reader the privilege of negating their own opposing opinion that "true Americans support illegal immigration".
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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Oh ... maybe the history of such racist actions in the past few years could lead a more rational person to think arbitrary questioning of individuals will occur.
    Contrary to what race-baiters say, illegal immigration isn't about race, as all races and ethnicities are found in the set of illegal immigrants. Illegal immigration is solely about crime.

    Thus effective law-enforcement techniques would include all methods of suspect profiling that accurately hones in on who the perps really are, thus making effective use of taxpayer dollars, not wasting time and money stopping people merely because they're of this or that race, a very low-percentage and thus costly approach.

    To think that law enforcement will stop people merely because of their racial/ethnic looks in the matter is either ludicrous thought .. or plain ol' race-baiting for political power-pandering purposes.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    I predict, that within a matter of hours, days at the most, that DHS, DOJ and ICE will have a sudden and severe "lack of resources" to deal with ANY immigration status questions raised about those arrested and held in AZ. Federal pressure WILL be applied to "punish" this offer of FREE immigration enforcement help from the AZ law enforcement personnel. ;-)
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    My implied point-in-the-making is that there is a very wide swing on the interpretation of what constitutes a "true" anything, which I make to allow the reader the privilege of negating their own opposing opinion that "true Americans support illegal immigration".
    There is only one definition of a "true American": an American citizen.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I don't think the Federal government was doing its job wrt immigration either, and not just Obama but Bush also. I just don't think a state government is appropriately empowered to enforce federal law, especially not immigration law. All a state can do is arrest the suspected illegal immigrant. Then what? The federal government has the INS to see each situation to completion. Arizona doesn't have the INS at its disposal so what was supposed to happen after the arrest?
    I agree with you in your statement of whose job is what .. and yes, Bush was just as guilty as Obama for doing nothing significant to address the matter, as both have political power-pandering reasons to let illegal immigration continue.

    But I disagree with you as to the detailed fine point, unless I misunderstand you, as the AZ SCOTUS-upheld function of stop and momentarily detain and report is simply not an arrest, and is more like what happens during a traffic-ticket stop: no one gets arrested, they're merely stopped, momentarily detained, and a report is made.

    Like I said, AZ likely knew it wouldn't get away with the arrest and deport part of it's law once the SCOTUS got ahold of it.

    They are apparentlly quite happy with being able to keep their stop, momentarily detain, and report aspect, which has sufficient teeth for the moment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    If Arizona is upset because the federal government won't act a better plan would be to sue the federal government for the state costs of illegal immigration and/or better still, repeal the 17th Amendment and go back to the way the Founding Fathers set the country up giving the state governments there due say in Washington. I'd even be okay with Arizona putting up their section of the fence on the Mexican border. I'm not saying there isn't a problem with illegal immigration because obviously there is. I just cannot see what the police were supposed to do with suspected illegal immigrants when they have no structure in place to process them once arrested.
    Agreed, with regard to an accurate definition of "arrest".

    Whatever the next rational/legal step for AZ now in dealing with the illegals in AZ, yes, I hope they take it, and I hope they continue to be a leader in this matter for all states and our country as a whole.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Which means it's useless.

    AZ Republican Senators and governor knew this would happen, they want to keep their cheap foreign labor profits flowing into their pockets.
    Would it be fair to guess that you don't live in a border state?

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    There is only one definition of a "true American": an American citizen.
    Traitors, even technically before they lose their citizenship as a result, are effectively not "true Americans".

    "True" Americanness is not a function of mere legal American-citizen status, but a function of behaving ethically toward all fellow American citizens.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    I agree with you in your statement of whose job is what .. and yes, Bush was just as guilty as Obama for doing nothing significant to address the matter, as both have political power-pandering reasons to let illegal immigration continue.

    But I disagree with you as to the detailed fine point, unless I misunderstand you, as the AZ SCOTUS-upheld function of stop and momentarily detain and report is simply not an arrest, and is more like what happens during a traffic-ticket stop: no one gets arrested, they're merely stopped, momentarily detained, and a report is made.
    Oh, okay. I thought they were arresting people who look Hispanic for not carrying papers on them 24/7.

    In any event, I'm sure you'd agree this is a big negative going forward for the GOP trying to get Hispanic votes, if that matters. I really wish the GOP would be more win - win in their solutions to problems. First, quit being reactionary and come up with the solution first. Then, just as the enforcement side is important, there needs to be something corresponding like English as a second language classes and teaching in American history conducted by GOP groups so that they'll always remember for generations who it was who help their families when they first came here.

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Traitors, even technically before they lose their citizenship as a result, are effectively not "true Americans".

    "True" Americanness is not a function of mere legal American-citizen status, but a function of behaving ethically toward all fellow American citizens.
    More often then not when someone refers to "true" Americans, or the "real" America, they are referring to that subset of Americans who believe in their poltical views.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

    I'll have to review this when I get a chance, but I thought most of the AZ law was AZ doing the feds job because the feds wouldn't do it... If that is the case, perhaps it's time to send a case up the courts against the feds for negligence.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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