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Thread: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Hilarious video, but they shouldn't lie and say they're doing it to stop racism, it's clear that the only purpose is for them to feel better about themselves.

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Other then the Canadian government refusing to grant natives freedom for their nations (which is not racism so much but the government refusal to give up the various lands and their natural resources - which I think is very wrong)...if you think minorities in Canada have it remotely as bad as most racial minorities do in America (especially 'blacks')...then you have not got a clue what you are talking about.

    Visit the worst part of T.O. or Vancouver or Montreal (I have been to ALL of them in the first two and most of them in the last one). It will look like an absolute paradise compared to the bombed out, war zones that are in many major U.S. cities 'ghettos'. Compare the murder rates.

    I am not going to have a pointless back and forth debate with you...I am right and you are wrong.

    Period.

    Have a nice day.
    You mean like this?

    Attachment 67129867





    Whenever you find a single US ghetto that gets compared to a third world nation, you're more than welcome to bring it to my attention. Until then, you can continue on believing that Canada is some sort of haven where people simply don't notice race "anywhere" near as much as the US. Maybe you don't notice it - but they certainly do.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You mean like this?

    Attachment 67129867





    Whenever you find a single US ghetto that gets compared to a third world nation, you're more than welcome to bring it to my attention. Until then, you can continue on believing that Canada is some sort of haven where people simply don't notice race "anywhere" near as much as the US. Maybe you don't notice it - but they certainly do.
    So, you are the type that puts words in others mouth's when you debate? I never said or even hinted at the word 'haven'. Nor did I say or hint the other things you mentioned.

    I don't debate with people like that...it's pointless.


    Have a nice day.


    And btw - assuming that is a native reserve, I already dealt with that earlier.

    You are saying this is as bad as 'black' 'ghetto's' at their worst? That the murder rates are a fraction as bad? Would you - as a 'white man' - rather walk down the worst Canadian native street at night? Or the worst American 'black ghetto' at night? Are you saying the available government assistance is less in Canada? That government healthcare is less for the poor in America? Pleeeease...don't be absurd.

    And If you think Canadian natives have it as bad as American 'blacks' in terms of how they are thought of and treated by the majority...you're completely wrong.


    I am done with you on this.
    Last edited by DA60; 06-25-12 at 09:07 AM.

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    So, you are the type that puts words in others mouth's when you debate? I never said or even hinted at the word 'haven'. Nor did I say or hint the other things you mentioned.
    Quote Originally Posted by DA60
    if you think minorities in Canada have it remotely as bad as most racial minorities do in America (especially 'blacks')...then you have not got a clue what you are talking about.
    Sure you didn't.

    I don't debate with people like that...it's pointless.
    Good for you.

    Have a nice day.


    And btw - assuming that is a native reserve, I already dealt with that earlier.

    You are saying this is as bad as 'black' 'ghetto's' at their worst? That the murder rates are a fraction as bad? Would you - as a 'white man' - rather walk down the worst Canadian native street at night? Or the worst American 'black ghetto' at night? Are you saying the available government assistance is less in Canada? That government healthcare is less for the poor in America? Pleeeease...don't be absurd.

    And If you think Canadian natives have it as bad as American 'blacks' in terms of how they are thought of and treated by the majority...you're completely wrong.

    I am done with you on this.
    Kk - here:

    The Daily, Tuesday, July 21, 2009. Incarceration of Aboriginal people in adult correctional services

    In 2007/2008, Aboriginal adults accounted for 22% of admissions to sentenced custody, while representing 3% of the Canadian population.

    Age, level of education, and employment status can only partially explain the representation of Aboriginal adults incarcerated in Canadian prisons, according to a new study that used data from the Integrated Correctional Service Survey and the 2006 Census to analyze factors that could be contributing to the representation of Aboriginal adults in custody.

    The provincial incarceration rate for Aboriginal adults in the jurisdictions studied was higher than the rate for non-Aboriginal adults. The gap in the incarceration rates for Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal adults narrowed when age was considered, but Aboriginal adults continued to have consistently higher rates across all age groupings.

    Analysis based on available data for Saskatchewan and Alberta showed that young adults without a high school diploma and without a job had the highest rates of incarceration.
    According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) non-Hispanic blacks accounted for 39.4% of the total prison and jail population in 2009.[42] According to the 2010 census of the US Census Bureau blacks (including Hispanic blacks) comprised 13.6% of the US population.[43][44][45]
    13% accounting for 40% of the population being in jail vs 3% accounting for 22% of people in jails.

    Even if you wanted to do this conservatively that still means you are nearly 4x more likely to go jail as an aborigine in Canada than as a black man in the US. You really want to go down this road?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    My two cents is that pointing out the existence of white privilege isn't racist - although it's often characterized that way by critics of anti-racism. And I have no doubt that campaigns are like this are bound to piss people off. Racism is a sensitive topic. If people aren't being challenged to think about it, then progress isn't being made.
    This isn't simply pointing out that "white privledge" exists.

    Suggesting that, in a general sense, the it exists is one thing. However, when your simply blatantly putting out there that statements such as those on the faces of the people in these adds BROAD stereotypes of white people...as a whole...concerning not just how they are treated but also how they think and how they act that's an entirely different.

    It is flabbergasting to me that if you use extremely broad stereotypes to describe practically any race in any fashion you hear the cries of "racism" or at the very least "prejudice" coming from a mile away but apply steroetypes to describe whites and suddenly...hey, perfectly okay because, you know, you're white.

    But thank you stillballin. Thank you for your own, ignorant, prejudiced, bioted steroetyping of those responding in this post. Shocking that you jump to the notion that "maybe" people are upset with thow "white people" are characterized in this campaign because they are insolated unempathetic ignorant individuals who don't understand what it's like ot be other races. Shocking, truly shocking, that there's no mention that people could be upset by it because it's stereotyping, hypocrisy, and hatchet job approach engenders a reaction OTHER than understanding and actually helps fuels the issues of race in this country rather than combats it...you know, the idea that multiple posters already put forth as part of their issue with it. It couldn't possibly be because it belittles the entire notion of racism by using racist techniques and thought patterns in stereotyping an entire race and their interactions to attempt to make a point, thus simply continuing rather than fighting racism. No, no...the thing to leap to naturally is that we're just a bunch of prejduce ignorant white people that can't/don't want to understand what being a minority is.

    There's definite ways to discuss what this group SEEMINGLY wishes to discuss, promote, and push out there that actually could help the issues in this country and put across their message in a meaningful and useful way. Instead, they chose to fight racism with, at best, broad stereotyping and hyperbolic shock value.

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    There's an unsubtle distinction between pointing out inherent difference between the races, and pointing out the fact that people, despite the Jim Crow era being over, are still being treated differently by society on the basis of their skin color.
    However the ignorance comes into play by stereotyping said treatment as universal across all whites and across all interactions.

    White privledge exists. That said, it's one of numerous factors in one's life...and a smaller one with each passing decade...that help to affect where they're at. A white individual born into poverty, whose parents were born into poverty, has a much smaller gap despite his "white privledge" then the average minority individual. His experience is likely far different than what's stereotypically shown in the idiotic ad's because contrary to it's prejudiced hyperbolic presentation...not all white people are treated exactly the same singularly due to the color of their skin.

    We can not simply ignore the past, the impact that the past has through a butterfly type effect on the future, and what that means to our current society. Logically speaking individuals who have affluence dating back multiple generations is more likely to be affluent as well, and due to the issues pre-civil rights movement and dating back all the way to slavery, you're going to have less generations of potential affluence for most Blacks than compared to whites. While the civil rights movement was 50+ years ago, it absolutely is true that there is still those that harbor racism in their hearts and actions today and that there are differences in how people are treated. We shouldn't ignore those things, deny them, or just shrug our shoulders in attempting to address them.

    HOWEVER

    It's also foolishness and ignorance in its own right to ignore the other truths of reality as well. That with every passing year and decade the gap between the races in terms of allfluence is slowly shrinking. The impact of say 3 or 4 generations before you is less than that of 1 or 2, and we're approaching a point where one or two generations back for people will be post civil rights movement. Were things perfect and honky dorey then (or now?), no. However, they are significantly better th an before that and continually improving. Racism amongst each new generation seems to be declining or, at the very least, tolerance seems to be on the incline. Again, leading to a lessening of the issue over time. While we need to look at ways to balance against the hardships minorities have experience, we also need to constantly be re-evaluating them with a fair, honest, and objective eye in terms of the reality that over time, as things improve, the positives of those actions compared with the negatives they entail may no longer net a positive outcome great enough to warrant their need or assistance. This is not suggesting that any specific or all programs need to end now, or in a decade, but that simply they should not be simply looked at as enact and forget type of legislation that is somehow going to always exert the same effect on society.

    While those who absolutely deny there is a positive difference in how whites often get treated or in terms of the general standing of whites as a collective are displaying their ignorance of common sense and reality, those who wish to act as if the same does not exist for whites in a negative sense at times are also displaying such as well. Yes, I see people at times who deny that racism is an issue anymore and that we don't need anything in society to monitor for the issue at all. At the same time, I see people who claim that minorities simply can't be racist at all. Yes, I see people who throw out the token "Some White Guy didn't get in because a black guy was on the list and affirmative action forced it" tired argument again and again...but then I see individuals on the forum also basically excusing away negative instances of racism towards whites as useless, anecdotal, or even justified. I live in a heavily hispanic area of Sterlinig and previously lived in an apartment complex that was largely hispanic/african american. The descriptions upon the faces of those individuals in the ad were absolutely not the looks, reactions, and attitude I got from a number of individuals in my surrounding area, white privledge or no. Do I believe that white privledge doesn't exist to a certain extent because of that? No. Do I believe that what I experience is of a similar level to what the average minority experiences? No. Is the stereotyping of "What people see of me" still extremely inaccurate and are the same racial views the ad is attempting to suggest are singularly applied to minorities being applied to me at times in my neighborhoods? Yes. Which is part of my issues with idiotic stereotyping like this is because it's still born out of ignorance...the same ignorance most racists have...in that a race all experience/think/act in one particular way.

    Yes, people are still treated differently by their skin color. However, it's unfortunatly hard to have a reasoned discussion and debate on what we should do about it when even the mere suggestion that such a thing cuts both ways (not even with an indication that it cut's both ways evenly, just that it does) is met with declarations of white supremacy.

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    As for the un-fair campaign being "hypocritical" - maybe so. But I'd argue that once again, maybe that's the POINT. It's intentional because challenges people's assumptions and sensibilities about race and racism. Don't like how white people are being characterized in this campaign? Then maybe it's because you haven't taken the time to put yourself in the shoes of a racial minority and experienced the generalizations, the discrimination, and stereotyping that they face in society all too frequently.
    This is what always strikes me about how some/many white people respond to campaigns like this or arguments like the one in the campaign. When confronted with some form of a negative generalization about white people, they are taken aback or angry or self-righteous in their disdain for having to experience the type of generalizations that minorities often encounter on a MUCH more frequent and intense basis for the entirety of their lives. One the one hand, the lack of awareness is distressing. On the other, it's a bit of a "they know not what they do" situation.

    I'm also a firm believer in the notion that people need to truly experience things in order to understand them so when a campaign turns the tables, I tend to see it as a positive so long as no significant harm comes from it.

    There's all too many folks that think "anti-racism" simply means ignoring racial distinctions, sweeping them under the rug, and pretending they don't exist and not talking about racism as if we're already a colorblind society. Most of you know that as an adherent of critical race theory I pretty much reject that approach.
    Yeah, the whole, "If I ignore it, it goes away," thing doesn't make sense. That, to me, is the kind of philosophy that is perfect for people in privileged situation. You can ignore things that don't directly impact you because you have that luxury.

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    This is what always strikes me about how some/many white people respond to campaigns like this or arguments like the one in the campaign. When confronted with some form of a negative generalization about white people, they are taken aback or angry or self-righteous in their disdain for having to experience the type of generalizations that minorities often encounter on a MUCH more frequent and intense basis for the entirety of their lives. One the one hand, the lack of awareness is distressing. On the other, it's a bit of a "they know not what they do" situation.
    Oh, I'm aware minorities by and large experience similar types of generalizations every day. And those are also wrong .Those are also things that should be fought against, educated against, and that we should be raising our kids against. However presenting that type of mindset as not just acceptable, but a useful tool, if done against white people is not combatting the notion or fighting the issue but is just exaserbating the issue and fueling it. It's like saying gun violence is bad and we're going to demonstrate that it's bad by shooting people.

    I'm also a firm believer in the notion that people need to truly experience things in order to understand them so when a campaign turns the tables, I tend to see it as a positive so long as no significant harm comes from it.
    Again, this mentality and bigoted stereotyping drive me crazy.

    It immeidetely assumes that white people have never experienced any form of racism before. OR, it assumes that whatever they've experienced isn't significant enough because it's a rare occurence or can never be to the level a minority individual has experienced.

    The first assumption is just stupid. The second assumption however invalidates the argument that this type of thing is needed to make people "experience things in order to understand them". If racism felt by white people can't happen at a significant enough rate OR can't happen at the same level a minority feels and thus is less important, then trying to make them "experience" this still isn't going to make them "understand" it because by your own logic it's either not happening frequenlty or severely enough to have a realistic impact.

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    This isn't simply pointing out that "white privledge" exists.

    Suggesting that, in a general sense, the it exists is one thing. However, when your simply blatantly putting out there that statements such as those on the faces of the people in these adds BROAD stereotypes of white people...as a whole...concerning not just how they are treated but also how they think and how they act that's an entirely different.
    This exactly how many minorities feel every damn day. If white people who did not understand that before this campaign (any many do not) and they apply this to the minority experience, then the campaign did some good.

    It is flabbergasting to me that if you use extremely broad stereotypes to describe practically any race in any fashion you hear the cries of "racism" or at the very least "prejudice" coming from a mile away but apply steroetypes to describe whites and suddenly...hey, perfectly okay because, you know, you're white.
    It depends on the context. If a white guy was in a group of dominated black people who were stereotyping him and he retorted with some racial stereotype of them to show them the nature of their comments, I would think the white guy is using a smart and acceptable tactic. It turns out that minorities are in a population dominated by white people, so the same goes for that.

    But thank you stillballin.
    Uh oh.

    Thank you for your own, ignorant, prejudiced, bioted steroetyping of those responding in this post. Shocking that you jump to the notion that "maybe" people are upset with thow "white people" are characterized in this campaign because they are insolated unempathetic ignorant individuals who don't understand what it's like ot be other races
    .
    If you're white, you don't understand what it's like to be other races relative to their racial experiences. /shrug

    Shocking, truly shocking, that there's no mention that people could be upset by it because it's stereotyping, hypocrisy, and hatchet job approach engenders a reaction OTHER than understanding and actually helps fuels the issues of race in this country rather than combats it...you know, the idea that multiple posters already put forth as part of their issue with it.
    I can't speak for SB, but I'll speak for myself. I have no doubt that some posters responding are upset because they don't like to be stereotyped or generalized, but I can't help but feel that that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Why? Because it gets people thinking and talking with relatively no damage.

    It couldn't possibly be because it belittles the entire notion of racism by using racist techniques and thought patterns in stereotyping an entire race and their interactions to attempt to make a point, thus simply continuing rather than fighting racism. No, no...the thing to leap to naturally is that we're just a bunch of prejduce ignorant white people that can't/don't want to understand what being a minority is.
    I don't really see all of this in the campaign, but I think it's hilarious when white people get so mad about a campaign that's going to have little to no impact on them in society when minorities are surrounded by this stuff constantly and most them get through their day without being so pissed off and clutching their pearls.

    There's definite ways to discuss what this group SEEMINGLY wishes to discuss, promote, and push out there that actually could help the issues in this country and put across their message in a meaningful and useful way. Instead, they chose to fight racism with, at best, broad stereotyping and hyperbolic shock value.
    I used to think that, but I don't anymore. I don't know how many times I've presented studies on this forum and seen others do the same that objective illustrate racism and white privilege. I don't know how many civil discussions I've had outside of this forum about those topics. It's rarely the case that it matters because more often than not, the people who don't already acknowledge white privilege don't respond to calm, polite messages with no "shock value." Sometimes, shock and anger are necessary. Hell, some of the times when I've most realized how wrong about something I am is when someone pissed me off telling me about it.

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    It's also foolishness and ignorance in its own right to ignore the other truths of reality as well. That with every passing year and decade the gap between the races in terms of allfluence is slowly shrinking.
    Actually, the income disparity between races has remained virtually the same for nearly 40 years. It's the gap between men and women which has closed.



    If you'd like to know more on this subject:

    Income Disparity Persists Between Blacks, Whites : NPR

    The income gap between black and white families has widened in spite of the gains of the civil rights movement, according to a new study released Tuesday.While incomes have increased among both black and white families in the past three decades mainly because more women are in the work force the gain is greater among whites.
    The study, based on data from some 2,300 families during the past three decades, shows a black family's income in 2004 was a little more than half that of a similar white family's.
    A key reason for the disparity is that incomes among black men have declined when adjusted for inflation. They were offset only by gains among black women.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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