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Thread: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

  1. #101
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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Theplaydrive

    People just need to stop whining, acknowledge the negative aspects of their population or themselves and get on with it.
    And... How does one go about "getting on with it". What is "it" they are supposed to get on with?


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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Of course, one could easily flip this and point out that there are those who appear to see racism in a Hallmark card that uses the term "black holes"
    I think that's stupid.

    yet can't/won't see even the possibility that it exists an ad campaign that's effectively saying that you're wrong to be white.
    That's not what it's saying.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Thank you for saying this, Mr. I. As I've noted before, for the most part, putting someone on the immediate defensive doesn't really open them up to hearing your position because they'll be too busy feeling the need to defend themselves.
    I think that's true, but different people will respond in different ways. Do I think that overall this type of campaign is effective? Probably not. But it'll at least be successful at fostering some sort of discussion. And if people aren't reflexively on the defensive maybe they'll stop and think, "hmm maybe they have a point."
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 06-25-12 at 02:51 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #104
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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    And if people aren't reflexively on the defensive maybe they'll stop and think, "hmm maybe they have a point."
    There's some truth to the idea that instantly being on the defensive should be a cause to stop and think, but the problem with these ads is that they won't trigger such introspection because they put people on the defensive. These ads will only appeal to those who have already realized the truth of the statements they contain.

    I thought they were actually kind of humorous because of how they would be taken. Ultimately, this is detrimental to the discussion, though.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    There's some truth to the idea that instantly being on the defensive should be a cause to stop and think, but the problem with these ads is that they won't trigger such introspection because they put people on the defensive. These ads will only appeal to those who have already realized the truth of the statements they contain.

    I thought they were actually kind of humorous because of how they would be taken. Ultimately, this is detrimental to the discussion, though.
    I think that's a fair point Tucker. I just think the whole issue of contemporary racism - by which I mean post-Jim Crow, societal and institutional racism which in turn results in the implicit advantages of white privilege - is so loaded, that it's impossible to expose [what I believe to the be] the truth about contemporary racism in America without offending some people's sensibilities.

    And for those who are STILL clamoring that the un-fair campaign is engaging in racism itself, I'd respond that it's no more racist towards whites than an ad campaign illustrating gender discrimination and male privilege is sexist towards men.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 06-25-12 at 04:04 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  6. #106
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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    "If you see Racism, speak up. Break the silence"

    Okay, sure thing.

    Un-Fair Campaign <---- There's Racism
    I can't believe this. What horse****.

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Well, since you're being frank, let me be the same. You're so busy clutching your pearls, that you're not grasping two main things:

    1. When you're depicting a general/societal phenomenon (which white privilege is), there will be generalizations. It's the same when talking about black incarceration rates and education disparities. You can't talk about societal patterns without generalizations. So you either ignore it to avoid offending people or you address it and deal with the consequences. Although you said there are better ways to discuss this, you seem geared toward the former since you haven't accepted the fundamental reality that it's impossible to talk about white privilege without generalized language.

    2. It's better to confront the negative aspects of yourself or of the population you belong to than to ignore them or have your hand held while talking them.
    To explain, nobody likes to see themselves depicted negatively, as a group or as an individual. Regardless of wants, there are negative things about or around most individuals and groups. You can either confront them, whine when people point it out or request that people hold your hand in order to talk about it. Most people do the last two, unfortunately (which is what you're doing). For instance, there are black people who REFUSE to acknowledge problems within the black population that contribute to their socioeconomic place in society. There are white people who REFUSE to acknowledge problems within the white population that maintain inequality. And so on...

    People just need to stop whining, acknowledge the negative aspects of their population or themselves and get on with it.
    Certainly, much of this is true. But when arguments are made that certain characteristics of black culture embrace violence, or in regard to welfare reform- one is always met with accusations of racism before they've even been allowed to qualify their point.

    The race card is generally used to deflect from REAL, ACTUAL, PROBLEMS that need to be solved.

    I, for one, don't feel very priveledged. I suffer from PMS- Pale Male Syndrome.
    Last edited by kamikaze483; 06-25-12 at 04:11 PM.

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    People just need to stop whining, acknowledge the negative aspects of their population or themselves and get on with it.
    I agree, but where we part is that I don't think this method of advertising is going to help drive people to do that but rather fuel the fire of that kind of reaction being the norm and thus helping to slow the process of people getting "on with it".

    I'd feel the same way if it was billboards picturing a black man/woman/child's face stereotyping the issue of single parent black homes and families where a father is basically abscent.

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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I think that's a fair point Tucker. I just think the whole issue of contemporary racism - by which I mean post-Jim Crow, societal and institutional racism which in turn results in the implicit advantages of white privilege - is so loaded, that it's impossible to expose [what I believe to the be] the truth about contemporary racism in America without offending some people's sensibilities.
    Oh, you'll certainly offend some people no matter what you do or say. But there are ways to minimize the offense.

    Granted, with modern Conservativism being the last bastion of the true hyper-victim-mentality bull**** in this country, they are a very vocal group of offended folks. But people are starting to catch on to their victim-mentality nonsense and they are beginning to ignore them, so they can usually be dealt with these days by pointing out the absurdity of their views.
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    Re: Anti-racism ad campaign in Minnesota town called 'racist' by critics

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    And for those who are STILL clamoring that the un-fair campaign is engaging in racism itself, I'd respond that it's no more racist towards whites than an ad campaign illustrating gender discrimination and male privilege is sexist towards men.
    And you continue the strawman that the issue with it bieng racism is simply based off it talking about "white privledge" type of discrimination and not in terms of the method and statements surrounding its attempted presentation of said method.

    In general an ad campaign illustrating gender discriminatio nand "male privlegde" is not inherently sexist. However if it had pictures of men's faces up there going "I am likely to rape you", "I see you nothing more than a pair of breasts", "I won't high you because you could get pregnant", and presenting an imagine that is nothing but a collection of broad stereotypes presented in a manner to imply that it is the standard mentality of all males towards the opposite sex then yeah, I'd say there's a hint of sexism in that notion as well.

    However, you continually focus on your percieved issue that I supposedly have with "white privledge"...evident in your implicatoin that somehow the thought of it is what I find racist rather than what I've actually stated my issue is...however have repeatedly danced around and not touched the core of what my argument and issues with the ad is which is largely irrelevant to whether or not the ad is racist. That arugment being the net effect such a style of ad will have on the racial divide in this country. I said much the exact same thing, albiet wordier, that Tucker did that you thanked and commented your approval of yet you continue to trot out this notion and implicatoin that those who suggest its "engaging in racism" are doing so becuase it illustrates white privledge rather than actually note that the white privledge part is not the primary issue I hold with the ad.

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